I thought I might try writing a training diary containing my progress,(or the lack of it) of my G.S.P. puppy. I'm not sure how this will go for I am not usually a diary writing type, usually trying to keep things in my head and forgetting quite a bit.
Buck is 18 weeks old at present, (I think!) so it might be useful if I do a recap before I forget too much of my original thoughts and efforts.
I needed a pup to replace my brittany pup who was hijacked by my son and his wife to be a nice sized house pet. No one will admit to it but I think she was removed from my clutches before I had another heart attack while trying to train / control her. This was my own fault for I usually train my own dogs by the - You train yourself to go and then I'll train you to stop - system. I'm used to telling other handlers how to train their dogs by thoroughly training -recall, sit, stay etc. before giving a puppy much access to game, but I haven't , in the past ,had to do it that way myself. Now I am no longer physically able to do as I used to do, I will have to train this puppy differently. I think I am going to try a bit of "mixing and matching " between one method and the older tried and true method.
Buck comes from a long line of work only dogs and his breeder is a friend of mine. I have seen his parents right back to his gt. gt. gt. grandparents working. None of these were shown and could not be called dual purpose dogs.
I took him home at seven weeks and the first thing I noticed was that he was not car sick. The next thing to really catch my attention was the size of his ears, his nickname promptly became "Dumbo !"
He slept in the house with no real problems and was a typical happy go lucky puppy. Just a couple of days later he showed a slight wariness of water refusing to cross a thin trickle of it on my garden path. This wariness of water might have meant nothing, or it may be a sign of troubles to come. I won't worry myself or him about it for some time yet, a lot can happen between 7 weeks and 7 months.
I have been watching him and assessing him ever since then. He acts like a real little "Jack the lad," but is actually a bit of a softy. He does have a sensitive streak. His retrieve instinct is sky high, he does not bring retrieves directly to hand but is always willing to go for a retrieve, as many as I care to throw. I like this very much ,it is something I always look for in a puppy. It makes training so much easier. It is much easier to breed this in than train it in. A fair bit of my training, including an early response to the "play turn and stop" whistle and early directional training is dependent on the pup really liking retrieving.
He is a very "willing" pup and likes trying to learn new things - usually ! Elementary heelwork on the lead is poor, his sensitive streak cuts in and he seems to think he may have done something "wrong." Off lead in an enclosed space with minimal distractions ,he will,with encouragement, walk well to heel, turning as I turn and beginning to do the automatic sit when I stop. During all of this there has been no compulsion. He has been learning what he "should do" not what he" must do." He works for praise , I'm not a treat trainer , rarely using them except for an occasional one for sit to whistle / hand signal at a distance. (about 10 to 15 feet as I write)
Treats and me and a dog do not get on well. Other trainers get good results using them but not me. Just a few days ago I made a serious training error involving a single treat followed only minutes later by utter stupidity on my part. This has set my pup back and resulted in him not being quite so trusting of me.
So at present he has got a fair idea of sit, but at present I cannot depend on him sitting to voice or hand signal or whistle. His best response is to the hand signal. His recall to whistle , voice etc. is pretty good providing there are no strong distractions present. He will at present do memory retrieves of up to about 100 yards over easy ground and will do a "seek-back" of at least 30 to 40 yards for an unseen dummy over easy ground.
At short distances I can have him, with just one tiny "peep" on the whistle , turn, stop and look at me. If I then want him to sit ,I then have still to add the vocal command and the hand signal. By short distances I mean 10 to 15 feet.
He has no idea of hunting yet as I have little or no access to game and when training a pup to hunt my personal preference is for the ground to have game scents present to "draw" the pup on. My experience of the "proper" pointer / setter breeds is limited but I have seen a few h.p.r. pups that have I.M.O. been inhibited by too much "tick--tock" training on non gamey ground . It can, I think, make dogs think of it as an obedience exercise rather than as somehing to really enjoy. I do not use long-lines much at all, I have tried them with spaniels and with h.p.r.'s but I seem to be very cack-handed and they end up inhibiting my dogs.
That pretty much brings me up to present.
Today 10.30 a.m. I went out with a lady whos golden retriever is about 2years old. This is a show-bred golden and she is actually pretty good at gun dog work. Her owner is much harder to train as she herself frankly admits. I took Buck with me as he'd probably have wrecked the house if I'd left him.
The ladies bitch worked well to begin with but failed on a 100 yard seek back up a hill over rough grass studded here and there with wild raspberry cane clumps. The dummy was in one of those clumps.
This was a seen memory retrieve and I knew Buck too had seen it thrown. Neither the lady or I felt like climbing back up the hill, so although nearly 5 minutes had passed by then and I felt he might have forgotten , I lined him up and sent him.
He went out directly to the correct clump, thrashed around in it and came galloping back with the dummy! My ecstatic cry of "I've eyewiped ye !!" was quickly cut off due to a ding on the ear from my friend and we continued on our way with me suitably chastened and subdued. The lady returned the eyewipe only moments later on an easy water retrieve which Buck refused. He is retrieve daft but not enough to overcome his wariness of water.
This has continued to be a problem and although I have taken things very slowly and gently he still isn't actually swimming. On the 2 or 3 occasions where he has gone out of his depth ,he has quickly panicked and returned with his front paws out of the water splashing furiously in an upright position. He is very young and I've still got the whole summer to work in, so I'll just have to make haste slowly.
I was up at Dechmont Law this afternoon re-enforcing the training I've been doing on the play/turn/stop whistle signal sometimes throwing a directional training dummy and sometimes approaching him to praise him.
He has picked up the idea of this game in no time flat and although he does not sit yet (nor do I expect him to) he turns at once on the whistle and waits to see if I will throw a dummy for him or move towards him to praise him.
This went well so I rewarded him after these very short range ret rieves by giving him one very long memory retrieve. He really loves these and today I stretched him a little further. The retrieve was thrown to the edge of a wood while I kept him on the lead to prevent an instant run -in. I walked him away over fairly short grass, a distance of about 130 yards, lined him up as if for a blind and sent him. He could not get there quickly enough and nearly tripped over his big puppy feet. His line was very good considering the distance ,taking him to within 6 to 10 feet of the dummy which he found easily and made a fast return.
Is he now bringing them back to hand?
This is the problem I have with Allez(3 out of 4 grandparents are actual working dogs). He rushes to pick up anything thrown for him but takes it off somewhere rather than bringing it back to me.
He hunts in a good pattern, and points, although can be a little bit sticky to put in, still chases for a short distance but stops when whistled, stops at 50 yards or more, and recalls pretty well on the whistle. He seems a biddable Brittany to me (not all of them are ) compared to the boys I've had before. I have been thinking of taking time with a local labrador man for training. What do you think?
Annie _________________ Aberdon HPR's. Good-looking AND Intelligent.
I wish I could say that he is but I'd be lying. He now comes in, slows down over the last 20 feet or so,does a small semi - circle of me then "presents" his backside to me. I, at the moment ,am not making a fuss about this, if I did I would be running the risk of worrying him again, making him slower to approach and more inclined to circle. If this is going to be difficult to "cure" rather than run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I may borrow a tip from the art and home design world. If there is an incorrect detail that cannot easily be changed or hidden, make it into a feature. I am considering gradually changing his semi-circle into a turn to present the dummy from the heel position, hope that makes sense. My alternative is to leave retrieving alone for a while and do a lot of obedience-ring style recalls and sits . Sit is one of the last things I really thoroughly teach, with some sensitive dogs it can result in them slowing down on approaching the handler as they do not like that last little bit of obedience and can become anxious. I would prefer not to turn the "sit" into a "must do " just yet. Buck will probably be over 6 months and maybe over 8 months before I really go into that.
Your labrador trainer may be able to help Annie, but most labs. are very natural retrievers and the trainer may not have much experience of a dog behaving as yours does. I might be more inclined to go to a good obedience -ring trainer. These people are far more accustomed to dealing with many breeds of dogs that do not really want to retrieve.
Make use of other branches of dog training, there is nothing wrong with this , I certainly do it whenever I think it could be beneficial. There is a wealth of knowledge out there that the average gundog trainer knows little of, use it.
Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, the little sod has done a spot of gardening today, mainly pruning, we now have a very mini miniature rose bush and a clematis no longer attached to the ground. Becoming bored with gardening he got into the shed dragged out my dummy bag and did a bit of quality control work on two of them. He seems to think this involves testing to destruction. Just in case I took him training with some lingering resentment of this in my mind, I did the other thing, I went fishing. No joy there either, peoples ill-trained mutts jumping in the water all over the place. How come their horrible hounds do this even though they don't want them to, while my little alligator doesn't, even with encouragement ?
It's not a fair world.
Perhaps he's waiting for you to strip off and go in with him!!
Talking of retrieving WB, Ghillie will retrieve from water but drops it to shake herself and then looks at me as if I am mad when she is told to bring it to me any ideas gratefully received.??
Jan
You could try to find a place where the dog has easy entrance and exit from the water. Go fairly close to the water, send the dog for the retrieve and the instant its feet are on the bottom as it returns turn and move away - FAST! Keep calling/whistling the dog as you go. If it is possible drop down in height until you can see the dog but it cannot see you and keep calling.
Many dogs, though not all, will respond by forgetting momentarily about shaking and hopefully dropping and get to you just as quickly as they can. If the dog will do this,bringing back the dummy even partway to you, the dogs habit of shake/drop at the waters edge is being broken. It is then possible with care and with a bit of luck to build on this but it needs to be done little and often.
Failing this ,hold up a big , fluffy towel and encourage him in for a proper dry from mummy!! Sorry Jan, I just couldn't resist that last bit!!
Allez absolutely LOVES running to me (and all over me )if I drop down and hide in the long grass in the field - so if I throw the dummy out, give him the recall whistle then throw myself down he JUST MIGHT bring it right to me. Can't do it in the garden because I don't fancy having my face and chest pitted with chuckies I haven't had any animals in the fields for a couple of years so no cowpats etc to deal with.
Only problem would be how to extend that to a proper present
Annie _________________ Aberdon HPR's. Good-looking AND Intelligent.
Allez absolutely LOVES running to me (and all over me )if I drop down and hide in the long grass in the field - so if I throw the dummy out, give him the recall whistle then throw myself down he JUST MIGHT bring it right to me.
Sorry to butt in on your diary WB but Annie!! I wish to see this technique perfected in June and demonstrated as a trouble-shooting exercise . (Must remember to borrow video camera ) _________________ Sue, Brice, Chase and Piper
never forgetting Mugi and Freddy - happy hunting boys!
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)if I drop down and hide in the long grass in the field - so if I throw the dummy out, give him the recall whistle then throw myself down he 
I haven't had any animals in the fields for a couple of years so no cowpats etc to deal with. 
