workinghprs.myfastforum.org

langhaar · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Is the GSP the number 1 HPR?

This breed has always been considered as the premier one in the UK HPR sub group. Statistically this has been proved by results obtained by the breed in the field and the ring. In the 60's 70's 80's and early 90's their record was unbeatable by all others.

Most of the input regarding HPR's ie training and the setting of standards, has been from Clubs in this breed and most of our judges have a history with working these dogs.One could say this remains to this day!

Since the mid 90's statistics prove the numbers of non GSP trialling breeds are overtaking in the results and the dominance of the GSP in the field seems to be on the decline. Assessing results to the numbers of entries one could say the dominant one at the moment is the GWP. This breed seems also to be protecting it's dual purpose role. The GLP is not close behind, although there are less than a dozen dogs competing most had FT awards last season. There also has been a numeric improvement in the HV with some good wins in the last couple of seasons.
It is interesting to see an influx of German blood has been added to some FT GSP kennels .
Is it not now time for non GSP clubs to have a greater input of how are tests and trial standards are set? It would seem the GSP has lost it's hunting prowess which is being ignored by over emphasising retrieving tests which require little or no intsinctive responses.Has the fire gone out in this breed?

BritAnnie · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

windem bang · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject:

That is a cracker of a question Langhaar ! It should get some very interesting replies !! I have , rightly or wrongly, gained the impression that this forum is more heavily used by the owners of the h.p.r. breeds other than G.S.P.'s. The replies received may numerically and in opinion, reflect this.
I am not a "breed" person, I tend to like the dog best that does the job best and which is also a good family pet. It matters little to me which breed I have as long as it fulfills both these functions. I think I can honestly say I am not breed biased.
I would not object at all to other breeds having more say in the running of trials. The G.S.P. clubs have carried the torch for a long time, perhaps it is time they let others at least share its weight.
I have been "out of the loop" for a rather long time as far as trials are concerned and am in no position to comment on which breeds are doing best but I think G.S.P.'s still must have a pretty good full set of instincts since it always seems to be a representative of this breed that wins the championships ?
I am puzzled by your saying retrieving requires little or no instinctive responses. There are hundreds of handlers out there who find retrieving to be their biggest problem because their dogs have been born with not quite enough retrieve instinct to easily train them with. I never train any breed of gundog the force fetch and depend heavily on a pups breeder having mated a bitch with a strong retrieve instinct to a dog with the same. An instinct cannot be trained in only bred in.

I have never seen dogs working on the continent, maybe I would be as inpressed as you or maybe I would feel the same way as others I have spoken to who were less than impressed at what they saw.
It is I suppose possible that the G.S.P. which has been in this country for about 60 years, (I think!) has begun to become more "British." It may be adapting to the slightly different needs of the "average" British rough shooter. I do not think this is a bad thing. British breeders have taken note of what is required IN THIS COUNTRY and are trying to breed towards it.
Is it still the no.1 breed ? I don't know but it is still a breed to be reckoned with among all the others.
In Scotland the breeds I see the most of working on game are G.S.P.'s, WIRE HAIRED VIZSLAS, WEIMARANERS and G.W.H.P.'s . I would be happy to have any GOOD dog from any of these breeds provided it was very good tempered with people and with other dogs. Mansharp, if that is how to spell it, is not wanted in this country. If I am correctly informed it is still valued and bred for in Germany ?

Bill T.

DesO'Neile · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject:

For a period of nearly ten years I received the Kennel Club Gazette and spent hours looking at imports and exports of all the pointing breeds. My only comment would have to be that I had the impression that continental blood was imported on a regular if infrequent basis rather than solely a recent thing.

tashap · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 688 **Breed:**

I'd opt for number in breed if you go on ratio of numbers entered vs number of wins it does even itself out a little.

countrygirl · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject:

This is another interesting one. It would be good the hear from someone with the breed record supplements who could shed some light on the numbers of the various hpr breeds being registared.

I would think that Weimarans are right up there with gsp now, but interesting there was a piece in the latest gwp newsletter showing that registrations have drop off sharply.

This is apparent in the show ring but wonder if it has made any difference to the numbers going to working homes

Caz
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NOB'S do it in the field!!!!!!!!!

weima · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

windem bang · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject:

That's a pity ,I'd like to see more working weimaraners. Is it show people who are importing and breeding them mainly then ?

Bill T.

countrygirl · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject:

I wouldent only blame the show people, the public like the pretty gray dogs with blue eyes hence a lot breed
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NOB'S do it in the field!!!!!!!!!

windem bang · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject:

I don't blame the show people or the general public for liking the look of them but this rarely helps a breed much as breeders who only care about the money they can make start to jump on the band wagon.
As you know this means they are not being bred for anything apart from a grey coat and bluey eyes.

I hate to see a practical working breed messed about with in this way. A newcomer to h.p.r.'s who wants to buy and maybe work a Weimaraner might be badly put off the breed if his first dog is pretty useless for work and for all I know about, it for showing too.

Bill T.