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WiskeyJaR

here in the states, or at least all the ones locally, the trainers dont train for hunting fur, squrriels, rabbits, nutria, etc. All they train for is uppland bird and waterfowl. Which is just fine, 'cept I want to hunt fur too.

Do you folks across the pond, use your L.M.'s to hunt both fur and fearther? I see pictures of 'Munster's with foxes, rabbits, etc in their mouths and such. Same dog hunt both?

How do you folks classifie "versatile" breeds? Over here it tends to mean a dog just capable of hunting both uppland birds and waterfowl. No mention of fur hunting at all...."if you want to hunt fur, get a beagle or hound" that is the common response when I ask local trainers about fur hunting. <sighs>

windem bang · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject:

Hi Whiskey, I can't talk specifically about Munsters but in this country it is generally accepted that H.P.R.'s should hunt or at least can hunt for fur such as rabbits and hares. Foxes and squirrels are not usually hunted by the dogs but they will certainly indicate the presence of a fox for example. I've shot foxes, feral cats and stoats over my Brittanies points. I did not ask or want her to retrieve them though.

Other furred game is pointed if not hunted by H.P.R.'s here. I've heard of but have never seen it myself, dogs pointing Muntjac and even wallabies! We've got wallabies living wild in Scotland, I'm still waiting for an invite to hunt them though!!!

Many H.P.R.'s are used for deer stalking and tracking. Munstyman and others tell me Munsterlanders are pretty good at this. I have yet to get a point on hare from my present G.S.P. pup but he's been pointing rabbits for months and has pointed on a fox or two. No reason I can think of why your Munsty shouldn't work very well on furred game. Beware of the retrieves if you send your dog for animals such as squirrels, if it is still alive it will bite HARD!!! Your dog could be made hard mouthed, don't know if that matters so much over there as it is supposed to do here.

Bill T.

WiskeyJaR · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

thats the biggest reason why they say they wont hunt fur with thier bird dogs, "dont want to make our dogs hard mouthed"

I get in arguements all the time because I insist that a dog can and should hunt both. <<chuckles, silly "know-it-all" yanks anyhoos.>>

The local trainer I am using, raises springers and has two seperate kennels, one side is for his "rabbit dogs" and other side is for his 'bird dogs" He says he keeps them seperated more for the ease of training then anything. Same litter mates, blood lines....just used for different hunting.

When picking a breed, one of the major factors in picking a Large Munsterlander, was the fact they seemed to be so good at both fur and feathers.

munstyman · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:

Hi Wiskey,
Agree with everything Bill has posted, munsties have a lower head carriage than GSP etc, when hunting and seem to readily switch between air and ground scent according to conditions. Alot will depend on what you encorage the young dog to do and expose it to. There is alot of debate (and rubbish) spoken on what makes a dog hard mouthed, I would say picking fur on its own is not sufficient to make a dog bite down. As Bill points out if a dog gets injured by the retrieve it will be more likely to `bitedown first ask questions later' on subsequent similar retrieves, but this can be done by birds too, so it really boils down to giving as much good experiences when retrieving and limiting the bad ones in early training and experience.
Like most HPR breeds over here the Munster is a truley Versatile gundog,it has the ability to hunt almost anything, it can find and point some of them for you too Rolling Eyes

Chances are you will run out of training ability before the dog runs out of natural ability Wink

Peter

WiskeyJaR · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject:

Munstyman said;

munstyman · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject:

Very much a pointer not a spaniel Wink

.
The dog should point, flush on command and be steady to flush and shot. Problems can really start when a LM hunts for `itself' and not for you and the gun.
Taking on board my previous post, if the dog hunts for itself, chases and catches unshot game, the likelyhood of that game `fighting back' is going to be higher and therefore the likelyhood of the dog biting down will be increased Idea

I would keep the emphasis on your training on birds and train for absolute steadiness on ground game. The dog will still acknowledge the presence of the ground game providing you do not over dissuade this traite during your training of steadiness.
Peter

windem bang · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject:

Steadiness training to fur, I'm reallly talking rabbits here, is done bearing in mind that the dog should not only be steady to a running rabbit it must also be trained that steadiness in such a way that a young dog is not put off pointing them by an overly harsh steadiness correction. That is just about the same as Peter/ Munstyman just said.

It's a bit of a balancing act, if you correct too harshly at the start of a chase a dog may think it should give any future rabbits it scents a bit of a body swerve. Or it may still point them but "blink the point." The dog when sent in to flush from the point will avoid going near the rabbit.

Most dogs have the opposite problem, they chase! If I cannot get the level of correction absolutely right from the start, then personally I prefer to deal with a chasing dog. In other words I under correct a chase.This dog will still be keen to find rabbits and point them. I find it easier to correct a chaser than correct/encourage a rabbit "blinker." This is just a personal opinion others may very well take the opposite view.

Bill T.

munstyman · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:53 am Post subject:

WiskeyJaR · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:34 am Post subject:

yea, I would much rather have a dog working WITH me then FOR me. This will prolly sound strange, but I feel when I have a dog working with me, Im "conected" closer to the wildlife. Sounds kinda loopy but not sure how else to say it.

P.S. Im learning about the "munsty's language" (chuckles)

windem bang · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:07 am Post subject:

There was a recent post on this forum concerning work FOR or work WITH. This has continued on another forum and is still running even now!
It all got a bit too high tech for me and I retreated to buy a dictionary to try to understand all the big words used in the theories!!! Rolling Eyes

Bill T.