Another Lost Large Münsterländer - Wooton Bassett/W.Swindon

münstermanager

Tessa went missing on 9th December from Bath Road,Wooton Bassett, Wilts.She is mainly black,has a long haired tail,a white tip on tail & white ring around her black muzzle.collar,ID & CHIPPED

The owners posted the above on Doglost. It has been flagged on Münstermag and cross posted to the Champdogs Forum. I gather that the owners have been out postering and Doglost are involved. If anyone lives in the vicinity, please could they keep their eyes open or poster.

Many thanks

The poster is:
http://www.doglost.co.uk/poster.asp?ID=8065

Click to see full size image

munstyman

I never new one was so close...not a LMC member then Crying or Very sad

Missing as escaped? or stolen?
Peter

münstermanager

Hi Peter. I didn't check whether or not she was a club member... I guess you have. I keep hearing of Münsters around here - not club members and never seen out and about.....

I don't know if she were stolen or just missing. Doglost says that 'she went missing from fields'. Sounds like she may have been hunting, but I don't know. It's weird that there haven't been any sightings at all and this happened 5 days ago. The owners seem to have been out and about postering everything and anything and everyone at the kid's school knows as well.... Lots of people walking those fields (near Donnington Road) have been out looking too. I hope that it's not like Marvin where the dog went missing, but was never returned. As this one had a tag and was chipped, one would hope that whoever finds her would do the decent thing. Oh dear....

I'll print out some posters and take them to Westonbirt Aboretum with me tomorrow. People go there from all over.

Sue

munstyman

i,ll make sure both the Swindon and North Wilts dog wardens are aware of the case, and of course keep on the look out...at least I know what I'm looking for Smile

Peter

münstermanager

It helps to know what you are looking for Smile

. I've met several people lately you've got a bit cross because Beecham is not a setter! Shocked

They then tell me he looks like one and that he has a labrador's head!!! Evil or Very Mad

Not all dog wardens know what they are - the one who took my Bronze Good Citizen thought Beecham was some kind of GSD cross and said he didn't look like a gundog as he had the wrong sort of head and wasn't slobbery!! Rolling Eyes

Hopefully, the area dog wardens are more wised up...

If anyone is also on the Gundog Forum, please could you cross post? Indeed, any other Forum too. Many thanks

Sue

munstyman

All done,
I have contacted the owner and had a chat, they are doing everything that has been suggested, I have just cross posted to NOBs so that most of the local shoots can keep a look out Cool

.
Both dog wardens should know what to look for aparantly the North Wilts one use to work in kennels where this one stayed, and the Swindon one has met mine......although it seems the Swindon one was unaware that this dog was missing as a message was not passed on `its not in our area!' Evil or Very Mad

I know munsties are smart but to know where the county boundary is, would be pushing the boat out Smile

Lets hope we can get this dog back home for Christmas.
Peter

münstermanager

ooh well done. I didn't like to ring the owners, so I got onto Doglost and tried to PM them. Both Munstermag & Scottish Munsters wanted more photos... I also offered to go down and help on Monday, with Beecham, if they haven't found her by then.

It's great news that the North Wilts one actually knows the dog. That could help. Pity about the boundary - could be a useful tool for hunting Münsters otherwise!! Anyway, glad that the Swindon one is now informed and knows what they are!

Do you think the dog is still running around somewhere? I have been a bit concerned that she hasn't been returned, if picked up, as she was wearing a tag. If she is still running around, do you think we should gather together as many Münster people together as poss and go to the fields with the Münsters, bearing in mind that Münsters attract Münsters? What do you think? Did she get lost when out walking? Also, as Münsters attract so much attention, it might get non-doggy people thinking....

All fingers & toes crossed that she does get home by Christmas
Sue

munstyman

Apparently she ran off whilst being walked by the husband, probably on deer scent. I checked to see if she was walked from home and she was which in my book means she is unable to come home by her own devices. So either she has been picked up by someone, or she has got caught up somewhere (given that she was wearing a collar and tag).
Hopefully it is just a case of a well meaning person taking a wet bedraggled,lost looking dog in to a warm house, or she is still trailing a deer with that typical munsty determination.
I am not sure bringing other munsties into the area would be a good idea...imagine the false siting reports Rolling Eyes

Posting in the area, especially those frequented by the local rural community is probably the best bet, although the owners and friends seem to be doing a great job of this. Shoots and gamekeepers that are active this weekend hopefully will have a Nob who will now know to keep their eyes open. And those coming in for supplies at Countrywide should also see the poster, so fingers crossed.
Peter

münstermanager

Running off on deer scent is always a worry... but a week... oh dear... I wondered if she were near enough home to know her way back. You can't win with collars and tags though can you. Either they don't wear them and people think they are unloved/stray like Marvin or one risks them being caught...

Hadn't thought about the false sightings, but surely 3-6 Münsters walking about wouldn't lead to false sightings unless someone had had too much Christmas cheer?

The owners seem totally on the ball with this from what I've seen posted, though I haven't spoken with them like you.

I suppose she could have followed for a long distance, lost the collar and be in a different area...

As you say, hopefully, the weekend shoots will be wise as to the situation etc etc

One not so nice question, if she were caught up with the collar, would she survive a week?

You're far more wise than me with stuff like this but if it were my dog, heaven forbid, I'd risk the false sightings and have a Münster scour if it were possible.

Do keep me posted on anything you hear.

The only other thing I wonder is if Allyson's Twiggy can track a dog...
Best wishes

Sue

munstyman

Hi Sue
There are hundred of senarios that you think up in times like these, and after a week I would be suprised that she has not been seen in the area, at least trying to get home, if she was free to do so.
With regard to tracking, the weather conditions earlier in the week and the use of the area in question by many dog walkers would probably not leave significant distinctive scent for a dog to follow, except on the day that she ran off. In which case I would probably opt for sending a dog on the deer scent or animal scent that took the dog in the first place.
This has got me thinking, hind sight is a wonderful thing, and when a dog runs off ( and yes, even the best trained dogs can do it Embarassed

) we often are in abit of a state and are not thinking
straight Shocked

(note I did not include Very Happy

)
It might be a good idea to cover what you should do to help get the dog back or at least prepare for a more controlled search.
Firstly keep calm or more likely calm yourself down.
Initially stay where you are, continue to call the dog back to you (in `happy' voice not `angry' voice ). Make a note of where you are, mark the spot if neccesary, make a note of the direction the dog left you on and the last spot that you saw the dog before it vanished.
Follow the dog whilst you can see it, and continue to call, remember most dogs will self track back once the stimulus of what has drawn them away has worn off. I have heard of a wirehaired pointer owner waiting over ten hours and the dog came back to the car.
Talk to everyone that you see in the area and explain what has happened and give contact details and the dogs name. ( it is easier to catch a strange dog if you know its name)
If the dog has not returned within two to three hours of your initial search, contact the authorities, police local dog warden and get help from friends dogs that the missing animal knows and recover the initial area.
Slowly expand the search area informing any residence of the area of the description of the dog. Pay special attention to areas and features that the dog could get into but may be unable to get out. And also hazards which might have injured the dog, roads, railways, quarries etc.
Especially important for gundogs contact local farmers and gamekeepers who may come into contact with your dog.
If the dog still has not returned after 48hrs I would treat it as missing / stolen (well intentioned or not). Spread the word locally using posters talking to relative business's, vets, local post offices, confirm with authorities that they have the relevant information and are still looking out for the dog or dog related incidences. Local kennels rescue and otherwise, use the internet to spread the net wider.
Continue to walk the area where the dog disappeared, remember from the dogs point of view it expects you to be where it last saw you, regardless of time or interim events.
This is by no means a definative list of things to do, infact I would appreciate any comments and additions, afterall this is what forums are good for, and I'm speaking from limited experience on this subject....yeah right Exclamation

Peter

münstermanager

Hi Peter
Yes, I forgot that we had had several deluges and gales when I wrote about tracking. She'd be very cold if she's stuck o/s somewhere. Beecham was shivering at a training workshop on Sunday and that wasn't the worst day.

I noted the stretch of emoticons!

When I lost Beecham @ Westonbirt many a moon ago, he returned to the car. Losing him was my fault. I was trying to teach him to look where I was and I went off the path, behind him beating my way through the vegetation. He passed me, but not on his good eye side. My natural inclination after a few moments was to return to the car but everyone told me to stay where I was. He was seen running around in the car park and when he couldn't find me, he backtracked and was picked up by one of the people to whom I had spoken. I know of a Small Münster who got lost in Germany and returned to the car...

Your list of what to do is really very useful. Can I cross post this to the two LM sites? We have two LMs here who have been lost over a week from running off on scent.....

Many thanks & best wishes
Sue

langhaar

An old pointer trick is to leave a coat or anything that smells of the owner at the area where the dog was lost. Leave a note so nobody steals it.
With Longhairs, and I've lost a few! they will always return to where they ran off and then stay by this scent until found.

munstyman

hi Sue,

münstermanager

Brilliant, thanks Peter.

Langhaar, I liked your clothing idea too. Makes perfect sense. Like Peter's dogs, Beecham loves discarded clothing. Luckily, he doesn't roll in them considering they are usually undergarments!

Peter, I've just spoken with Tessa's owners. They would like me to go down tomorrow. Although they've walked the fields with other dogs with no success, the more people who help the better. I don't know what time I'm going as I have to take Beecham to the vet tomorrow as he's gone lame. Nurse told me on Saturday to rest him until Monday and then take him in - oh dear. Anyway, once I have an apointment, and I will go for morning or evening, I will head off to Wootton Bassett.

Anyone who has any free time and is near the area is more than welcome to join us.

I don't know whether the owners told you that there have been a couple of possible sightings. Someone walking a Leonberger, had it run off after deer, and they followed it to a copse where they saw a dark dog run away. The post sorting office are convinced they saw her that Sunday too, sniffing around the bins, but the owners cannot understand why she didn't come home if that were her. Finally, the stonemasons near the railway yard told them that a dog had been picked up off the line. However, Network Rail have had no reports and the police say that there has been no log/report of any such pick-up and there should be. She was unable to get hold of the railway people, in person, on Friday. I think the stonepeople said that the dog was a mongrel, but after many days outside, a dog would be rather mucky with all that rain. The owners seem to have almost convinced themselves that this poor dog, if indeed there were such a dog, was Tessa and that at least they would know what has happened. Other than that, they are still hopeful.

As I said, I'm going down tomorrow. Support & comfort are perhaps more important than anything else at such a time.

Sue

münstermanager · More Photos of Missing Tessa

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münstermanager · Still Missing

I went down to Wootton Bassett today. Still no luck. However, a passing motorist saw Beecham and stopped to ask, 'is that Tessa', so the word is spreading. It turned out that she had heard a strange dog bark like nothing she had heard before and like nothing that lived in the area. We tried to describe the high pitched yip yip of a Münster in a pursuit of a deer and she thought it was that. That is the second report of such a bark. This woman had been out at night searching with her working lab (some people are so very kind) and had bumped into the gamekeeper of a pheasant farm. He said that the farmer had seen such a dog, but we are not clear whether it were Sunday or Monday last week.

There is still no news about the black mongrel found on the railway line. I don't think Tessa looks like a black mongrel, but she is very dark and very doggy people call dogs all sorts of things. Apparently, the Dog Warden told the owner that they had had reports of a a missing dog down at an animal sanctuary and when they went, the sanctuary had captured a fox!! Shocked

There isn't a dog on the railway log of any kind and dogs must be logged. However, it appears that many dogs are taken off the line and buried and never appear on a log..... Oh dear.

It has been suggested that Tessa may be heading further away towards Marlborough.

If anyone is down that way, please keep your eyes open. She may not be the dog on the line, we just don't know.

Many thanks
Sue

Alkemist

For her owners sake - I hope she isn't the dog on the line Sad

Hope she's home soon.....
Nina

münstermanager · The very worst news

Nina, I read your post last night, and started worrying and worrying

I just looked at Munstermag and saw all this about poor Tessa and looked at Doglost and they confirm that, indeed, it was poor Tessa who was found on the railway line. Well, that is from the description, date and time and the lack of recent sightings.

In spite of the fact that the dog was found on the line midweek last week, the family has not been informed officially even though she was wearing a tag and was chipped. Apparently, they buried her immediately. I hope they buried her... The local Dog Warden is absolutely livid as this has happened rather a lot and several times recently (I don't know if that is in the same area or not). It is also illegal. I understand that Doglost/Dog warden is going to complain and Large Münsterländer Rescue have also offered to remonstrate with the authorities. I will pass the latter onto the family tomorrow.

Is there anything we can do? I am happy to do some organizing/co-ordinating if someone tells me what to do.

So, a very tragic end to a Saturday afternoon walk with a deer chase. Poor poor Tessa and poor poor family.

I have extended the deepest sympathy of everyone on HPR Forum to the family ...

Sue

Mike

Oh dear Sue how very tragic, I hope at the very least the family can find some sort of closure now. How do they know it was her for sure?

münstermanager

The owners were told late last week, by the stoneyard, that a black dog had been picked up off the railway line. They rang Network Rail who assured them that no dog had been picked up and whover they spoke to checked with the signalman. Luckily, someone told them of another number (ie not an 0845 number) and they rang this on Friday, but there was no reply. The owners tried again yesterday and someone tried to ring them back last night but didn't leave a message. This other Network Rail number phoned again this morning and said that a black & white spaniel type dog had been picked up off the line last Monday - ie 11th December. The owner said, 'but she had a collar and tag' but she was told that the dog would have been buried with the collar on. Apparently, there is now no way of finding out for sure. However, there have been no recent sightings of Tessa. The last one was Sunday or Monday. In fact, she was seen that Saturday heading in a arc, so may be she went onto the line then and the sightings were false. It would explain why she didn't come to the people searching for her including her best GSP friend. As far as the owners know there are no other black & white dogs missing in the area, and they have been speaking with everyone and many dog people have been out searching for Tessa. There are no black & white dogs living wild in the area by all accounts.

However, the Dog Warden did not know anything about a dog being picked up off the line and nor did the police. I understand that the line is not electric in that area. Therefore, Tessa would have been hit by a train, but there is nothing in the train driver's log either. I suppose she could have run into the side if she were chasing a deer. But the deer there are Roe and I would have thought someone would have noticed a Roe Deer and largish dog running into a train if, indeed, that is what happened. The owners walked along the hedge by the railway line and couldn't see where a dog could get through, unless perhaps it were chasing something.

Doglost have had quite a few cases recently where dogs have been picked up off the line, tagged & chipped, and the owners have not been informed. Remember, the owners were searching for Tessa virtually non- stop for a week after she was picked up off the line.

I understand that the Dog Warden is writing to her Association and that Doglost is setting something in motion using Tessa as an illustration.

It's bad enough losing a dog in such a tragic way, but to not be informed, when it could be so simple, is downright disgusting in my view.

josie

Oh no, what a tragic ending. I guess we could take it as a lesson to us all to keep on top of recalls. Sad

Helen

Oh, that is awful. I feel so sorry for her owners.

Helen

Liz

Such a sad story - it does make you wonder what the point is when the law insists the dog should have ID, but Network Rail don't have the common courtesy to let the owners know the dog had been found and just bury it with the collar on! It would have saved them so much anguish.

Liz

Mike

guy

if the dog has been buried - could it not be exhumed? If it was the lost dog it would certainly help the grieving process for the owner to bury it for themselves, if it was not their dog hope reigns again. Plus the true owner could be informed.

münstermanager

Sadly, I don't suppose the dog is buried in a marked site. The conversation the owner had with Network Rail made it sound rather final. I rather feared, previously, that 'buried' might be a euphemism for something more unpleasant. I wonder if the railway men actually know where the body is? I will try to find out more ... And, yes, I agree burying the dog themselves, or having some ashes or whatever, would certainly help the grieving process.

munstyman

Hi sue and all,
I've just logged on and trying to take in all pm's and posts and e-mails, and not sure which to answer first.
This is a tragic case made worse by the actions of Network Rail and some of their staff/contractors. This said, and I in no way condone their action or the directive which must have been given by management for their staff to act in such a way. But I would warn about taking action in a way that would alienate those in a position to put things right for the future.
Sadly we live in times when the atmosphere of litigation hangs over everything we do, is it then any wonder that things like this happen, with no one willing to speak out for the fear of being sued or losing their job.
I urge all those who are going to write to network rail, MP's etc. to be polite and concise as to what is seen as the dereliction of duty by network rail staff, and to put forward suggestions as to how this can be rectified.
I would also suggest that priority should be given to finding the resting place of Tessa, as it is likely that if indeed she was buried it would be on Network rail property that the public will not have access to.
At this sad time I only wish to add that I know Tessa's owners have been quite overwelmed by the help and support given by all those that have contributed both practically and in their thoughts. It says alot about the dog owning community and especially those of the gundog communities, locally and nationwide,(not forgetting worldwide) I am proud to be one of you, and I thank you all.
Peter

Alkemist

So sorry to cause a worry - but when I read about the railway story it just seemed - too well timed I suppose.

Condolences to her owners, and god rest her little soul - hope she's found plenty of deer to chase up there.

There but for the grace of god go any one of us.

Nina

münstermanager

That's very touching Peter...

Doglost has requested that anyone with a Münster should write to the Network Rail Community Relations Manager: joanne.mcallister@networkrail.co.uk
specifically about Tessa. He will be letting me know who the Zone Director is as this lady, apparently, will only send a standard reply. It would then be useful if Münster people could write again to the Zone Director specifically about Tessa.

People without Münsters will be asked to write a general letter about all dogs, but this is not confirmed as yet.

As Peter has said, it is important that we get a change in both attitude and policy and persuasion is the key, ie out and out lambasting probably won't further the cause even though it appears that their behaviour actually may be contradictory to Network Rail's own policy let alone anything else. However, nothing has been confirmed on their policy as yet.

Sue

münstermanager · Action for Tessa - New Info from Doglost

This morning, I found this on Doglost, so I will not be writing to ask what they would like us to say as I mentioned in last night's post, but I have told the person that I have crossposted...

This is from Nik, Doglost's PR person
http://www.doglost.co.uk/forum.asp?ID=8065

I have received a very unsatisfactory response to my request to open a dialogue with Network Rail Zone Directors about carrying out appropriate policy. You may all like to express your dissatisfaction with what happened to Tessa by writing to their Community Relations Manager: joanne.mcallister@networkrail.com. Expect a patronising standard response which you will no doubt like to follow up.

I also understand that someone has emailed Network Rail asking for their policy on such matters but has not received a response.

Please please help by sending a quick email to the NR Community Relations woman. Do bear in mind previous posts when deciding what to say. The above post on Doglost indicates that everyone should write about Tessa, not just Münster people as previously suggested. Furthermore, anyone in any country can participate.

If you are a Münster owner, please say so on your email

Thank you all so very much
Sue

münstermanager · Dog Lost Strategy

I have just been PMd Doglost's strategy on the Action for Tessa...

****
The strategy is that dogs owners can be enraged/emotive to get the issue on the agenda. I will then make approaches to NR knowing that this will have filtered through to them.
***
Sue

münstermanager · CORRECT ADDRESS FOR NETWORK RAIL!!!!

Please note the address I posted, the one I was PMd, is the correct address!

That is:
joanne.mcallister@networkrail.co.uk

The post from Doglost which I copied had the wrong address in it!!! Oops. Many apologies from Doglost...

Sue

münstermanager · THANK YOU

Tessa's family contacted me last night and would like me to pass on their thanks for all the support shown to them. MANY THANKS to you all.

They have been in contact with Network Rail again who are being helpful. It seems that Tessa was buried where she was found. They would like to leave her where she is buried and remember her how she was.

Thanks again everyone
Sue

Another Lost Large Münsterländer - Wooton Bassett/W.Swindon

More Photos of Missing Tessa

Still Missing

The very worst news

Action for Tessa - New Info from Doglost

Dog Lost Strategy

CORRECT ADDRESS FOR NETWORK RAIL!!!!

THANK YOU