any advise for a new weim owner?

ladysmokeater · any advise for a new weim owner?

I would love any advise that anyone has for me! I think we have conqured all of the bad habits his first owners let him get away with, but with relapses. I am training him to be a fire prevention dog. that is, to be used to teach fire prevention (stop drop and roll, stay lo and go, etc). He is so smart and catches on so quickly!

I rescued my wiem from a local shelter about 2 months ago. He is just over a year old and came with some nasty habits (jumping, biting,) and had aparently never been worked with before. He was an owner surrender (destructive outdoors) anyhow Im still havting some problems with him jumping on me and he pulls like a pack of sled dogs. "no pull harneses" and the halti gentle lead are so difficult to put on him that its not worth the fight.
I cant seem to get him to mind although he learns new tricks quickly (as long as I have snacks!)
The vet said to smack him with newspaper to help stop the bad behaviors, but that isnt effective.

Id love some tips! Thanks!

Allyson

Hi, biting and jumping are very easy to deal with, but somewhat time consuming as the dog has had plenty of practice at rehearsing inappropriate behaviour and refining his skills.

Once you realise that dogs are simple beasts and they have spent centuries working out cause and effect which teaches them what works and what does not then tackling these issues is not a huge task.

I would teach an incompatible behaviour to a dog that jumps as if the dog has all 4 paws on the floor it cannot also be in the air! First I would show the dog that jumping has no effect, this means no eye, verbal or body contact. Eye contact demonstrates that you are focusing on him, verbal contact means you are entering into a communication with him and body contact is just an invitation to a game! Stand up, turn your back, if necessary remove yourself or the dog from the area for 30 seconds or so in a completely neutral manner.

Dog Jumps = removal of attention, likelihood of behaviour decreases
Dog Sits = attention, reinforcement by using treats, stroking, etc, likelihood of sitting increases

Biting, again same scenario, the dog may never have learnt bite inhibition. Rather than smacking with a newspaper (which means you dog will not actually learn what you do want, but will become at best, an expert at avoiding you, at worst retaliate) why not teach him to learn what you do want?

Take food in your fist, when dog mugs you or bites you, remain still and calm; the moment the dog steps back, sits etc, turn over your hand and give the food from the flat of your hand. This way you are actually giving him the opportunity and a reason for him to bite you and an opportunity for him to learn what does and what does not work.

Dogs do not waste time on things that do not work!

Positive punishment is not generally effective in this scenario as you have already discovered.

There are many head halters and harnesses about, none of which actually teach your dog not to pull, but they do help you “manage” the problem whilst you are going through the teaching stage. Again, if he has spent a year practising how to pull I expect he is really an expert. Again, use cause and effect; if the dog pulls either stand still or turn around. This DOES take a long time however if you are absolutely consistent, and do it EVERY time you go out the dog will learn. However if you sometimes allow him to pull (eg when you are in a hurry etc) and sometimes not, the dog will turn into a gambler and you will only INCREASE the likelihood of him pulling.

This can be very tedious and in the interim you might consider driving him to an off leash area for exercise rather than allowing him to haul you there and back. It DOES work however only if you demonstrate to the dog exactly what IS and IS NOT allowed. Dogs like things in black and white, not shades of grey.

Clicker training would be the ideal medium to use to train your dog the behaviours for a Fire Prevention Dog.

HTH

Weimaraners are very intelligent, quick to learn and nothing is beyond their capability.

josie

Hi - Well done for rescuing him. I've never heard of a fire prevention dog - what does that involve and who will he work for, eventually? Is it for you, at home, or is he going to be some sort of service dog??

I sympathise with you on the pulling issue. But when you say that the head collar and stop pull harness are hard to put on, what do you mean? Do you mean that he hates them, or just that they are too complicated/physically difficult to put on?

Have a look here for help on loose lead walking - several articles:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/#behaviors

Here is one for jumping up:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/jumping.htm

Good luck!

ladysmokeater

allyson,
thank you for the tips. I have tried the standing still and not allowing him to go when he pulls and it was effective at first. Then he would roll on the ground and get tangled in the leash. He is wicked smart in that he knew that I had to un hook the leash to untangle him (and I usually got bit some in the process) and he would take off while I tried to correct the situation. Sometimes he got away sometimes he didnt. I did have some what of a breakthrough yesterday. He usually tries to run to greet the neighbors when he sees them drive up and he and I are in the yard. He accually sat and waited for my command when I stopped and held on to keep him out of their yard. I was so proud! I will keep on plugging with the stand and not allow him to go so long as he pulls. we had used bitter-apple spray to help with the biting, it helps until he learned to nip with just the tips of his teeth and thus avoid the bitter taste all together... lol. He is a clever one I'd have to say.

Josie,
he fights and bites to not have the no pull leads put on and after I get them on he rolls on the ground and howls or just manages to get out of the lead alltogether.
A fire prevention dog is used to help teach the public, especally children, about fire safety through demonstrations. for example, I would talk about what to do if your clothes catch on fire have the dog show the kids "Stop, Drop and Roll" also what to do if there is smoke. I'm working on teaching him to belly crawl at the command of "smoke". He also barks when I tell him to "yell" so that when using him to teach I can say "what do you do if you wake up and smell smoke?" you yell fire. (well in dog talk the yell will be a bark but you get the idea) There arent many fire prevention dogs in my state, but I think that I will be able to use him when we do fire prevention at the elememtary school in my fire district (I am a fire fighter) once I get him trained. Other folks have used dalmations, but they are really not as good at learning tricks as other breeds. Blue, my weim, is surprisingly good with kids, despite how rough he is with me. My neices and nephews often draw the best behavior out of him. the exception is my youngest neice that will walk up to him then run away laughing and squealing (he will chase as he thinks its a game).
Anyhow, I will be the one working him.

josie

Wow, I've never heard of a fire prevention dog before - sounds great! So - he's more used in education, rather than in actually physically helping in fires? Or would he have a role to play in a fire situation??

Greyghost

Hello, I have rescued a Weim of 5 years old and she pulled like a train. We have had her 7 months now and she still has to walk out front of me but she is getting there, slowly. Rolling Eyes

I have started to use the halti again for getting to the field as I don't really want to use the car for such short distances everyday. The first time I put one on her she hated it and jumped all over the place. I almost gave up but persevered and I'm glad I did. About 10 mins into the walk and she gave in. I have to say at this point that I have got the most gentle and sweet Weim I have ever seen. Sometime I think she is a lab or something in disguise. Laughing

She will sit automatically when she sees the lead come out and waits patiently for me to put it all on.

Quote:
I'm working on teaching him to belly crawl at the command of "smoke". He also barks when I tell him to "yell" so that when using him to teach I can say "what do you do if you wake up and smell smoke", you yell fire.

How will you get him to react to the word 'yell' and not 'smoke' first. Rolling Eyes

Won't he start to crawl instead of bark? Just curious as you are using two commands in one sentence and wanting him to pick up just the one at the end of the sentence. Or have I misunderstood. Confused

You're right Weims are so very smart and you have to outwit them everytime. Be one step ahead - they teach us well Very Happy

Good luck.

Allyson

Your dog has practised strategies which allow it to outwit you. You have to do some prior thinking before you start whatever it is you want to do and consider various "what if" strategies.

If you have to untangle the leash then I would suggest it is far too long, if the dog is on a short leash there is no way it can get tangled.

So first thing is to have a very short leash, no more than 3ft at the most.

If the dog goes down and rolls on the ground to get rid of his confinement your leash will be short enough to prevent this strategy.

If you are afraid that your dog will bite you then you could condition him to a muzzle (long before you do anything with him on a muzzle) so that he views it as a normal "thing".

If your dog has occasionally gotton away from you that is one of the reasons he will always test you, to see if today it works or not.

You must be in a position so that the dog can NEVER escape, that way he will stop trying.

If your dog just nibbles you then it has good bite inhibition.

Adding Bitter Apple spray may prevent your dog nibbling anyone that is wearing it, but it does not actually teach him anything, you are merely avoiding the problem.

You must, as posted before, put him in a position where he can try the strategy of biting and find out that it does not work.

This DOES work however, ,again you MUST be consistent, which means you have to control the environment and his access to people so that ANY attempt to behave in an inappropriate manner is supervised and is a teaching/learning exercise. So for example if you are not there to supervise his interaction with others, put him away in a crate or kennel.

This way the dog cannot learn by himself!

HTH