| Archive for workinghprs.myfastforum.org Chat forum for owners of working HPR and Versatile gundog breeds. |
| Alkemist |
Anya bloodtrackingWe had the pleasure of doing a little bloodtrack with Marjolein when she came over here just over a year ago, and ever since then we have tried to get the things that we needed to continue doing it. Well thanks to some great friends we managed to get the blood, the deerfoot, and some idea of what to do....
Anya was fantastic!!!!! we are so proud of her. She tracks real fast, and real sure, and she found all of the things we put down for her (in fact she was so keen to carry on tracking, she wasn't interested even in her chicken wing reward). Here are some photos (we don't have many as Anya was too fast!!!!!). http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5151/p1000618zx4.jpg http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2971/p1000623jc8.jpg http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3104/p1000620zu0.jpg We hope to get going again as soon as we can!! If anyone has any footage of a bloodtrack taking place in their part of the world - please share.... Nina |
| josie |
That is great Nina, I wish there was some sort of UK gundog tracking assessment. Will you do some tests in Europe, do you think?
I have a DVD of the NAVHDA tests in the US, and there is some video footage of their version of tracking at the end of it - it is off lead totally and very very fast!!!!!! |
| Helen |
Excellent! Great photos!
Helen |
| Alkemist |
Oooooh Jo would love that video footage - can you get it put anywhere here?
I can't say if we'll ever do a competition but wouldn't it be great. I'm just having a go because I love to see dogs doing different things, and I got such a thrill doing this with Marjolein that time, there was no way I was giving up this one hehe. Nina |
| josie |
I'll have a go - will try and put it on youtube. Not sure about copyright issues, but if I credit it and post only a clip of it, perhaps it'll be ok! |
| Marjolein |
Fantastic Nina!!!!!!!
How old was the track? How long was it? How easy was it for her to stay on the track? Was there anything you found difficult? I would try to calm her down a bit. Just put some (or more) pressure on the line in order to get her to slow down a bit. If she's too fast, it's too easy to miss the wound beds you've made (in time you haven't made the track yourself and then you really have to pay attention). Great to read you've had so much fun!!! |
| Alkemist |
Mar, we did fresh tracks, not aged at all, with plenty of blood, and beds where we left the deerfoot and chicken wing. The ground was wet, with light rain falling during both the laying and the tracking. They weren't too long either, and she didn't struggle with that at all, so next time (when we get some more blood together) we are going to put less blood down, age the tracks by an hour or so, and make them longer - also I need to chat with you over whether I should be teaching Anya to speak at any point during the track, or at the end of it.
We tried using the line to slow her, but there was no chance of that hehe. I also will be putting her on some harness or other for the next time. I need to get to see more tracks being done somehow. We did one track with a dog leg in it, and Duncan took her on that - but he couldn't read her. I knew of course where the track was, and could see that she was doing fine, but Dunc obviously didn't know if she was going right, so I think we both need to learn to read her more. I'll get in touch soon to chat about it
Nina |
| josie |
Ok, I can't believe I've managed to do this, but here is the NAVHDA track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZoDclzQ-k This is taken from the NAVHDA Training DVD and somehow (with the help of my brother who's doing a PhD in computing!!) I've managed to get it online (and learnt a few computer skills in the process!!!!). |
| josie |
PS forgot to say - this method of training and tracking reflects what they want to see in a NAVHDA assessment, and may not be what you're doing. (still interesting though).
The only tracking I'd seen before this was working trials tracking, pretty slow and careful - this was like tracking on speed, by comparison  
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| Alkemist |
Thanks very much for that Jo - this is the tracking that Anyas Mother did while Duncan was over there, a drag track (don't I sounds like an expert hehe - I am not  ) but she was very fast and straight at that..... I just love watching things like this.
Thanks again Jo, Nina |
| josie |
No probs! |
| Wildflugel |
Anya Blood TrackingNina:I am glad to hear that Anya is showing interest in blood tracking. I can empathize with the situation of having to work with a fast tracker, I had to wear track shoes when one of my drahthaars worked a track. That was before I found methods to slow her down on the track. I now use food drops along the track to get my dogs to slow down when introducing them to blood track. I am not sure if you are familiar with the following tracking web sites. There are many experienced trackers on both web sites and they are a great resource for anyone that has questions or those individuals just beginning their training. One web site is United Blood Trackers (UBT) at http://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org. You have to be a member to access the discussion forum. John Jeanneney is a very experienced blood tracker and recently released the second edition of his book Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer. Go to the following web site to see the table of contents of his book: http://www.born-to-track.com/book/content.htm. John raises and uses Deutsch Teckels (wirehair dachshunds) for blood tracking. Both John and his wife Jolanta are on the UBT Board of Directors. The other site is www.TheTroutBum.com for tracking and retrieving training and real work. Access to message board free (http://www.thetroutbum.com/messageboardfr.htm) and the site contains some very good training articles. Another site you should check out is www.leerberg.com. Ed Frawley raises working German shepherds and is associated with tracking for police work and search and rescue. There are numerous good articles regarding tracking and scent work on his web site. Although his dogs are trained to track human scent, the principles and training techniques are very similar to those used for training a dog to blood track. Access to his library is free; http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm#track Ed also has tracking videos for sale on his web site. I personally have "Training a Competition Tracking Dog", "Problem Solving in Training a Tracking Dog", and "Training S&R – Police Tracking Dogs – Level 1 Country Tracking" (http://www.leerburg.com/vidolist.htm). These videos will provide you with a good base to train any dog to track. When I trained my first dog to blood track I used a tracking harness and noticed several problems with it. My dog's tendency is to pull hard on the tracking lead which resulted in me pulling on the tracking lead. This resulted in my pulling her hose up and off the ground. To remedy this I put the harness on upside down so snap was on underneath the dog. Instead of the lead coming off the dog’s back the lead was attached to the snap underneath the dog with the lead coming back through the hind legs. To keep the lead up off the ground and between the dog’s legs (so she did not step over it) I used a “belly band.” Now when I pulled on the lead I was pulling the head down towards the ground and keeping her in contact with the blood track. I ultimately went to a blood tracking collar, similar to the one used in Germany. The tracking lead comes off the collar between the front and back legs to keep a dog’s head down and in contact with the track. I still use a belly band to keep the lead between the back legs. Josie, you are correct in that NAVHDA does not evaluate blood tracking at their tests. While I am not able to access the video clip you list in your post, most likely it is of a dog working a pheasant track off lead. The JGHV evaluates a simulated blood track in the Utility Test (VGP) and the 20 and 40 hour blood tracking tests. For the VGP blood track a dog is required to work the first 400 meters on lead. If the dog is attempting to be certified as a “dead game guide” (totverweiser) or “dead game bayer” (totverbeller) the dog must work an additional 200 meter track off lead. For the 20 and 40 hour blood tracks the dogs are on lead the entire time. GNA has arranged with Jorg Tabel to come over from Germany to conduct blood tracking seminars in Texas (January) and Georgia (February). If anyone will be in the U.S. during this time and is interested in information regarding the seminars please let me know. Good luck with your tracking training! Wildflugel |
| Alkemist |
Thank you so much for that Wildflugel - I really appreaciate the links and the tips. I am very very keen to do more of this, so anything to read and look into, and anything to help me understand how this is done throughout the world is of great interest to me  I get a real thrill from seeing the dogs do this - dunno why, I just LOVE it (but then again I like to see dogs track human/crushed vegetation scent too, and I have limited experience in this also)
Jo's clip was indeed as you described - I am also hoping to do this type of tracking too with game. A general question for anyone that does this type of thing - what animal bloods are suitable for the track? Many thanks again
Nina |
| Mike |
Wildflugel,
Thanks for the links, i'm just starting to become interested in this area of dog work (after having an inexperienced dog lose a wounded rabbit) Although i'm more interested in the recovery of wounded small game than large. |
| josie |
Nina, the NAVHDA book I have suggests you can use any animal blood and suggests you go to your local slaughter house and pick up some cow blood! LOL. |
| Wildflugel |
Nina:
I use cow blood for tracking training, but have had some people collect deer blood for me on occassion. I do not see any difference in my dog's performance when working a track laid with cow blood vs. deer blood. When you get blood it will have already clotted. Once you break up the clots it will not clot again. I use a blender to break up the clots and then pour it through a large tea strainer. I freeze the blood in small containers and thaw it when I want to lay tracks. You can thaw the blood several times before it gets rancid. JGHV regulations prohibit putting anything in the blood other than salt to preserve it. I use a small laboratory squeeze bottle to lay my tracks. Some individuals use a detergent bottle and yet others will use the dab method (wooden pole with a small sponge attached to the bottom). A JGHV regulation track for the VGP is 400 meters and uses 8 ounces (sorry I do not know the metric conversion) of blood. The track is straight for the first 100 feet and then can take any direction after that, althought it will not come back towards the dog and handler. There will be two obtuse-angle bends in the track and one wound bed. When I start out with a new dog I put blood at every step and a food drop every other step. I want to reward the dog for staying on the track. I use freeze dried liver pieces, they are easy to carry and the ants do not seem to bother them as much as fresh food. I only put down only a small piece of food, I want the dog to eat the piece quickly and keep moving down the track. I do not want the food item so big that result in the dog stopping to eat and breaking his concentration. If you are interested, I have the outline of a tracking program that I have followed with every dog that I have trained. It was developed by one of the first GNA members that blood tracked with his dog. I found it to be very effective and I could provide the basis for his program if you would like to see it. Just let me know. Wildflugel |
| Wildflugel |
Nina and big_mike:
One aspect of the HZP test is to have dogs track and retrieve furred and feathered game that has been dragged. The furred game drag (hare or cottontail rabbit) is 300 meters with two obtuse turns and the feathered game drag is 150 meters with two obtuse turns. This particular event not only evaluates how well a dog follows the track to the dead game, but the dog is required to retrieve the game to hand as well. I have the NAVHDA "green book" that Nina has refered to in her posts. It contains some very good information; however, I feel there are some additional books that are contain better more current training information and methods. If you are looking for reference material regarding training dogs for versatile hunting, I highly recommend the following books: Training the Sporting Dog by Donald Smith and Ervin Jones. You can purchase this book from the American Hunting Dog Club from their web site at: http://www.jmfink.com/cgi-bin/miv...Code=TTSD2EFC&Category_Code=P Drahthaaar Puppy Manual by Roger Smith and Nancy Bohs. This is a training manual written specifically for training Deutsch drahthaars for German JGHV tests. You can purchase the book from their web site at: http://altmoor.com/catalog/BookVideo.html#versatile Armbruster Training Manual by Leonard Armbruster. This book was written by an American that had extensive experience training and testing drahthaars while living in Germany. You can purchase this book from the following web site: http://altmoor.com/catalog/BookVideo.html#versatile Training the Versatile Hunting Dog by Chuck Johnson and Blanche Johnson. This is a book written for training the popular versatile hunting dog breeds. You can purchase this bood from the following web site: http://www.amazon.com/Training-Ve...64356-9199812?ie=UTF8&s=books Wildflugel |