BenB
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Bad practice day on the pheasantsHi folks
Had a frustrating day at the pheasants over the weekend and hoping that it was just a glitch - think the biggest problem was me as usual rather than the dog... Not sure whether this should be in Training or working but there you go.
First wood. Lots of brash lying around and Teasel decided that the only way to deal with this would be to go at Mach 4 over, through it and round it - she was hunting so quickly I was having a job keeping close and then when i whistled her back and she didn't appear - i quickly realised that i was in the wrong frame of mind for training and started to think about putting her back in the truck. I spent a few minutes swearing under my breath and couldn't see or hear her. Turns out she had managed to loop round and was on point about 50 yards behind me, as I walked back the pheasant decided to run, Teasel then pounced and it flew off the wrong way. She then had 2 more on the trot that wouldn't hold and she chased them like a spaniel and wasn't being too sharp on the whistle - ignored me once and got a rocket from me. she then started to potter and at one stage just stopped and looked at me as if she was scared to continue hunting.
Thought a change of scene might be a better idea so set off across the stubbles to the long grass the borders the fields and knew that there would be birds about. Cast her off and she hit a solid point immediately - bird flushed and i shot it.  Teasel then ran straight to it but wouldn't retrieve 
She was then very good on the whistle and quartering nicely. hit another point and didn't creep, flushed on command, bird shot and again wouldn't retrieve it.
So need more retrieving practice but at least finished the walk with a brace for the pot.
So frustrating - when one thing seems to start going well - something else goes wonky.
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Mike
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| Quote: | | when one thing seems to start going well - something else goes wonky. |
Character building isn't it! 
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sako75
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Hi Ben ,
| Quote: | | she chased them like a spaniel |
Not all spaniels chase!!
Ben , What retrieve training have you done with Teasel ?? I take it that she has been introduced to pheasant wing dummies and cold game etc before deciding to shoot over her ??
It sounds as if she hunted well and she produced game for you to shoot . I would take the good points from the day i.e her hunting and pointing , retrieving can always be worked on. Use the pheasants that you shot for a bit of cold game retrieving and see how you get on. Use the wings on dummies first to get her used to them and then use the whole bird when you feel ready. Please forgive me if you have already done all this but I do not know your background.
Barry.
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BenB
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Maybe I should have said she chased them like a lurcher but you get the jist!
Her retrieving was coming on nicely with cold game and pigeons but for some reason she just was unamused by the pheasants. Shall have to do some practice this week and ignore the hunting side. maybe the scent is just sooo strong she gets confused?
Mike - shall give you a call about the weekend after work if that's okay - just to see where we are up to.
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sako75
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| Quote: | | Maybe I should have said she chased them like a lurcher but you get the jist! |
She chased them like a bl**dy weimaraner would be nearer the mark !!
Best of luck with your retrieve training , I am sure she will come good !!!
Barry.
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Helen S
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Ben, I've been through retrieve problems with my GWP, so I understand how frustrating it can be. If it's any comfort, mine found the difference between cold pigeons and a cold pheasant too much of a leap the first time.
I would try as Barry suggests and use the pheasants for retrieve practice. Teasle sounds as if she's got quite a good idea what to do, it just needs some polishing.
Good luck.
Helen S
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windem bang
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Hi Ben, she sounds like a very promising bitch to me. Where the retrieving is concerned you might try putting her on the lead when she points then getting her to flush GENTLY controlling the run in. Leave her there at the sit stay and walk out to the bird you have shot. Without moving the bird from the area of fall, hold it for a few seconds to get your hand scent on it, then walk back to her and send her for the retrieve.
This sometimes works because the dog has something familar to relate to, your hand scent. The dog will also have had time to calm down a bit and may be more willing to respond to your commands.
Even if none of this works it is all still good training for steadiness.
Bill T.
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BenB
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Good ideas - thanks guys. I attached a couple of pheasant wings to a dummy last night and sent her to retrieve it. She ran straight to it, removed one of the wings and brought the wing back to me.
Hard not to smile even though she is being a muppet!
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Helen
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Teal retrieved her first grouse last month. The keeper had shot it and Rob brought it home to do a worm count on it. I thought I would do a bit of training with Teal first. She went up to it, sniffed it, and came back to me. She then went out again, picked it up by its wing, dropped it and came back. After a few more times of this, she eventually retrieved it to hand. I did another one with her and she did it again.
That's a good idea Bill, which I think I'll use with Teal.
Helen
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countrygirl
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She sounds like a typical Wire Ben always one step ahead at mark 15 lol.
I will have to keep my fingers crossed for Saturday as its Rumours first day(well afternoon) out I will work Maverick in morning and then swop at lunch.
Just back from holiday in Las Vagas where we also got married so she is lacking in training at moment as she has been dragging round the the house sitter and playing ball with them for last ten days.
Keep up the good work Ben she sounds like she is well on the way to being an excellent worker
Caz
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kimgkg
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Congratulations Caz ... on the wedding that is!!! Wish you and your hubby well!
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tashap
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at least she didn't pick it up and nearly throw it at you when delivering... I have a new lad with me for a little while and took him to training brought some shot duck with me and only two of the dogs picked it straight away, my bitch (who was being handled by someone else but she still brought her ducky to her mommy) and one other. The boy I have at the moment took a sniff and came part way back before being told to go back and get it collected it and then as he got near to me he chucked it at me!! landing a few feet away from my feet... we have alot of work to do and I;d really like to do it without raising my voice its getting horse.
Lots of the dogs in class refused to pick it some didn;t even want to smell it, there was nothing wrong with the duck it was just unknown and something that needs a bit of practise to make it exciting enough for it to be prized.
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BenB
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bugger. Back to the drawing board for me - Teasel has decided that she knows better than do anything she has learnt over the last 2.5 years.
After the problems that started this thread I have been working on Teasels retrieve but i obviously haven't done enough and rushed back out to put it into practice.  Took her out to some lovely stubble fields with long grass clumps and the odd tree in the middle - these always hold pheasants and Partridge so thought i would be able to get her on point in the open and let her watch the bird drop - steady the whole process down etc. I stupidly decided not to use a long lead and she ran in to the shot and then refused to retrieve again. NO MORE HUNTING until we have this sorted - even when it is all nice and frosty outside and the pheasants are teasing us.......
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Helen
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What a pain Ben!! Good lesson though, don't rush :-p lol! She'll come good, she's a cracking dog so is bound to 
Helen
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BritAnnie
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Congratulations, Caz. Good idea going to Vegas to get married - all the Top people do that 
| Quote: | | Rob brought it home to do a worm count on it |
Sorry for being obtuse but what is this? If the birds are full of worms is it OK for dogs to retrieve them and for us to eat them?
BritAnnie
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Helen S
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Oh Ben what a b****er right at the wrong time of year!! You have my sympathy - keep at it right back to basics at home and NO hunting until she retrieves.
I found it useful to train the clicker "HOLD", at first from my hand and then to pick up the item from the ground. I didn't do the whole clicker retrieve sequence because I figured that Liesel already knew what she SHOULD do. It took about a week to really fix it and then I could command her to pick up cold/warm game if she got to it and hesitated. If she dropped it I just said "NO!" - "HOLD".
Then, each session when you first go out, NO hunting until she has carried out some retrieves. Then keep testing her in between short hunts, if she refuses a retrieve she goes back on the lead and home.
I am no expert but this combination worked for me.
Helen S
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BenB
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Thanks folks - I think we must all be masochists to find this fun! One step forward - 3 sideways and 2 back.
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windem bang
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Masochists  I know the feeling ever so well Ben  I'll be off shortly to take out my own personal sadist 
Bill T.
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Helen
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| Quote: | Sorry for being obtuse but what is this? If the birds are full of worms is it OK for dogs to retrieve them and for us to eat them?
BritAnnie
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As it happened that bird didn't have a high worm burden. There isn't a danger as the worms are in the gut and unless you, or the dog, is going to eat the gut, there isn't a problem. I don't fancy eating grouse guts lol. However, if a bird does have a high worm burden, they aren't in great condition and are generally quite skinny so there isn't much meat on them anyway.
Helen
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BenB
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Yesterday took the hairy mutt to the field behind my house which has rough grass from the cows and a couple of oak trees. Started off with the dummy - chucking it in line with a tree so that she had a marker (as Mr Kimberley taught). Absolutely no bother - Teasel marked it and then retrieved beautifully. I tried a few more and picked a couple of them up by myself to try and impart some form of steadiness.
Then i got out my cock 
pheasant that i had put in a stocking/tight thing and repeated it all again with lots of praise - she thought this was great fun and retrieved beautifully.
What's next? More cold game retrieving with no stocking on until she is bombproof??
Was really pleased with the session and so was Teasel - onwards and upwards.
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sako75
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| Quote: | | Then i got out my cock |
I like your style , was it a big one ???
Ben , I have been through this with my young weimy and from my experience keep teasel on cold game for the moment , use the feathered dummies as you have been doing and then the tight covered bird. You could maybe make a small hole in the tights and pull some feathers through etc and then work up to the natural cold bird.
I would not let her flush game for her first few warm retrieves , far better IMO to have someone else flush and shoot the bird. You could then concentrate on keeping her steady and send her for the retrieve if it is deemed suitable. Have you been picking up on a shoot ?? - this is a great way to get some practice in. I think that the actual flush can throw a dog off and it gets far too excited and messes about with the retrieve - I seem to remember someone talking about this before.
My young weimy picked her first warm pheasant on Saturday and delivered it straight to hand. This surprised me because over the last few weeks she had got into the habit of dropping the cold game (pheasant) at my feet. I spent a couple of nights last week fine tuning her delivery using the clicker - I was surprised at the quick results. I had never used a clicker before but I would recommend it for retrieving issues of this nature.
Is Teasel food orientated ? , if so PM me and I could tell you what I done to sort out the pick up and delivery. Nothing hard and not went down the route of training the "hold" but now she actively forces the dummy/bird into my hand. It worked for me (so far) but I will find out for sure when she goes on her first pheasant shoot picking up this coming Saturday ............God help us
Barry.
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BenB
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Thanks Barry
She is hard to bribe with food as a stinky pheasant is so much more exciting or failing that there is bound to be something worth finding if she just legs it around the field at warp speed!!
i shall start pulling feathers through the holes and just keep practising until i am confident enought to start her hunting again.
i have set up a sheep netting corridor to get her retrieves to hand rather than her doing laps with the bird/ dummy in her mouth.
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sako75
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Ben ,
The clicker training bit is not done with the actual bird. I was advised and subsequently used a new paint roller. All you are trying to achieve is the dog having a complete understanding of what is required.
I changed my commands for example and thoroughly ingrained what she was meant to do by holding my hand a certain way and using the new command - it is hard to explain but the jist of it was over 2 evenings I done about 60 retrieves in the house using the clicker and the new commands and then when it came to the warm pheasant retrieve , I simply used the same new commands and held my hand in the same way that I had been doing in the kitchen. The end result was my dog replicating exactly what she had been doing with the paint roller but this time with the pheasant - thrusting it into my hand in order to get the Click Treat (CT). BINGO !!!!!!
Best of luck and keep us updated with your progress !!!
Barry.
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BenB
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off to rummage for the clicker.....
Thanks again and i'll keep posting about what wheel falls off next!
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sako75
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Have faith MAN...............
She will be fine !!!!!!!
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BenB
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She has the makings of a very good dog - and we will get there. It is just remembering that patience is a virtue that i find tricky.
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windem bang
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Hi Ben, being a bit more of a cultured person than Barry I will restrain myself from adding to his comment concerning male pheasants. I still think your dog will come good at game retrieves, the retrieve corridor should work well, wish I had one. I'm struggling myself at the moment with my pup. I think I'm going to have to try the absolute unthinking obedience route to get him to improve. As you say, as soon as you get one thing going right, something else starts to go wrong!!!
In my next existence I'm going to take up hamster racing or maybe tiddly winks - anything but dog training
Bill T.
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BenB
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Guinea pig polo is on my reincarnation wish list.
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windem bang
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Didn't know guinea pigs could ride horses  Or are you gonna have the little b*****s swimming!
Bill T.
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BenB
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The rules are still not finalised but judging from the Egg adverts on tv - it should be easy to train them up.
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countrygirl
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Ben
are you a Brown had a feeling i read it somewhere anyway I am now a Brown also if you are lol not relation though.
I have been following this with interest as I have just started to take rumour picking up, she wasent keen to pick the bird but did but then ran past me and put it down again. I wanted to get a bird to practice but as it was a bad day(bag should of been 150 they shot 89 lol) I thought it wise not to ask and havent seen any road kill since.
Barry interesting to read your bit on the retriving to hand my old dog when playing will always deliver to hand forcing it in, but on phesants he nornally drops them infront of me.
I neec a bird and to get my tights out, hopefully I can get one on Saturday
and then practice
Caz
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guy
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Caz - you could always offer to purchase a brace - the money the shoot gets from a game dealer is close to derisory. For instance I paid 40p a bird for partridge at the beginning of the season.
Ben hope your wife is OK now.
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sako75
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| Quote: | | Barry interesting to read your bit on the retriving to hand my old dog when playing will always deliver to hand forcing it in, but on phesants he nornally drops them infront of me. |
Caz , this is exactly the problem that I was having but with cold game. I went down the route of "clicker training for numpties" by this I mean I devised my own way of training for the delivery to hand - very trial and error but so far it has worked. Mind you she has only ever picked one warm pheasant but I was very pleased with the delivery. I am out picking up on Saturday , so this will be the real tester !!!
Ps If you need birds for practice , do as Guy says and offer to pay for a couple - they cost 50 pence a bird up here Bloody ridiculous when you take into account how much it costs to rear the b*****s !!!
Sorry for interupting Ben
Barry.
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countrygirl
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as a regular picker up of some 13 season on this shoot its not normally a problem me having a brace it was just the fact that the day haddent gone well thought it better I dident ask, apparently there was an arguament between the keeper and shoot captin after I left. I dident go last week as they were holding a retriver field trial and it is a waste of time for us on the picking up front and I was asked nicley if I wouldent mine not bringing my noisy dog as they get put out for it. Dont quite undestand why it has suddleny become a problem after 8 years with this particular dog, but thats up to them gave me a chance to go shopping lol
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Helen S
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On the subject of noisy dogs I was shocked last weekend at the GSP club training day we went to. The racket coming from the dogs waiting was incredible. Not just whining either, real barking and all sorts. God knows what the householders across the valley thought as it echoed up and down the valley on an otherwise peaceful Sunday afternoon. Then the clay shoot started......
Liesel and I started our careers at the Retriever club where you get those looks if your dog whines and you are expected to remove the offender out of earshot for fear it is contagious. I actually agree with this, there is nothing worse than a whining dog in the line and it is offputting for everyone including the guns at a shoot. Removing the offender removes their temptation to whine and also teaches him/her that it is not desirable.
Helen S
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BenB
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WOOO HOOOO
I decided to revisit the same part of the estate to bag a few woozles as the freezer was starting to have some gaps in it. Got up there by myself as I thought Teasel would be better left at home as she has just finished her season and would be rusty.
After about 3 minutes I drove home and picked her up. SHE ABSOLUTELY FLEW and locked onto point, steady to flush and then lo and behold she retrieved it straight to my feet!!
Absolutely over the moon with her - we then carried on - she pointed a woodcock which i honorably missed with both barrels and three more pheasants which all went in the bag after steady points, and retrieves.
Somedays my dog is the best dog in the world! After a couple of hours we went home as the birds were starting to look to roost. Let's hope this wasn't a complete fluke.
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Mike
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Fantastic Ben
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guy
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So WB was right - yet again - she did come good. Pleased for you Ben.
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windem bang
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Thats great Ben, you will probably still get a few setbacks but as long as the general direction is forward, that's the main thing.
Bill T.
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Helen S
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I haven't quite got there yet Ben but I can imagine what an incredible feeling that must be. Well Done!
Helen S
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BenB
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Thanks for your comments and help so far folks - i know that this is an unending process and we all have good days and bad but for the first time everything went smoothly.
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