Bracco Italiano

Mike · Bracco Italiano

For pictures and breed info

Simon · Bracco Info

For anyone interested the Bracco Italiano Society web site is www.bracco-italiano.co.uk/

Simon

Mike

Jacobs a stunning looking boy BTW

Bracco1

Jacob at three months

And another

Go on one more

Helen

ginger

So cute they are lovely. I have a question to ask and please don't take this wrong way! I have only seen them at shows and some of the backends (not all of them), look weak do they have a problem with HD? Also is it true that they are hard to train because of the tracking ability? I was speaking to someone a while ago because I was interested in the breed and they told me that they have a tendency to get a scent and they are gone.

Ginger Smile

Bracco1

Hi Ginger,

I don't know of any real health problems with the bracco, and i have a few friends that work them and use them for agility who dont report any problems with the hips.
As for the nose.....well jacob has been doing quite well with training in general, but it has to be said he can go deaf when he picks up a scent.I think its just a casew of patients and consistency and they will get through it...eventually.

jon

braccanna

Hi there

I'm new to the forum and have a Bracco. In answer to the question about hips. As with any large dog, there is the possibility of HD but generally the Bracco doesn't have any of these problems. From experience, I can tell you that they are a very very healthy breed. I'm about to get another puppy which I want to work. Hence the reason I joined this forum!!! Smile

So hopefully somebody will take me under their wing and help me along. They are a wonderful breed to live with and really very easy to train. I have to say that they do tend to be scent driven but won't go if you don't let them. My bitch is now 2 and she is simply stunning. If I find a way of uploading the photographs I will post some.

My new bitch will be orange - like Jacob. He is adorable. What a beautiful boy and such typical Bracco behaviour. Is he a thief? My Ruby is a terrible thief. Nothing's safe on the worktops in my house!!!

Kind regards
Annie

Simon

Hi Jon,
I also own a year old Bracco which I am hoping to work all things going well! Im also not aware of any particular health/hip problems.
I couldnt agree more with them being scent driven though, my boy is a nose on very fast legs. From my limited training experiance a soft approach & an infinite amount of patience are the base requirements!

Anne,
As for being a theif I am glad to hear its not just mine, nothing gets casually put down these days unless you want to search the garden for it.
Do you do any kind of work with your 2 year old?

Regards
Simon

Bracco1 · bracco

Hi Anne and Simon,

Its great to hear from other bracco owners perhaps we could each other training tips as we go.....may i ask which breeders your dog came from we may have connections somewhere.

Jacobs is 9mths now and moves like the wind will go into any cover pick up scent and go... needless to say i'm working very hard on that stop whistle...any tips?

hope to hear from you soon...

Jon

Allyson

In the recent Dog World HPR supplement it said that there were Bracci participating in Working Trials. Does anyone know who those people are and what if any qualifications they have obtained as I have not heard or seen of any around in trials this year.

Simon

Jon,

Stopping them, I'm still trying to figure it out myself Rolling Eyes

I'm still doing plenty of the basic's when he's on the lead & up close. At greater distance I have had more success using a long trailing lead that I can tread on to re-inforce the command when needed. I'm hoping to find that switch soon though.

Allyson,
I'm new to trialling myself but I'm not aware of any that do - I'm looking to attend trial at Laverstoke though, God help me Exclamation

Simon

Allyson

Hi Simon, no not Working Tests, Working Trials, the two are poles apart! (So I am told) Wink

Rest

The bracco who was being trained for working trials was Keeley Newman-Jones 'Carenage' bred dog. As far as I am aware, he never competed at any level.

Originally, dogs owned by Jonathan and Liz Shaw and Martin and Leigh Smith competed in both Field Trials and GWT. Both with some success.

Bracco health: the BIS, at its inception, established a health database to collate all material to do with bracco health. The breed does suffer from HD and like all heavy chested dogs gastric torsion. Ectropian and entropian is also present. There have been incidents of 'bendy bones' in puppies. Coat problems also exist but allergies should not be confused with the way that some bracchi moult! To the unknown eye, this can be quite daunting.

Helen

How do they moult and how is different to other breeds?

Welcome to the board!

Helen

Rest

Helen

Oh right, that's interesting and something I've never heard of before. I think I would be slightly concerned if I had seen a bracco like that! Thanks for the explanation.

Helen

DesO'Neile

Pictures June Laing.

helenf

Hallo, my name is Helen and I have a 16 month old female Brac. I haev a second puppy booked for Dec but am undecided wether to get a dog or a bitch and would like to here peoples experiences of the dogs as I am getting alot of negative feedback about the the boys so far.

I am an experienced owner with a varied history of owning breeds over 25 yrs. Curently have Bracco, recsue Viszla, gsd and a setterX.

The Brac has been a total delight!!! Really easy to work so really don't mind which gender however am being told that teh lads are much harder....anyone's thoughts? PLEASE!!!!

Simon

Hi Helen,
I am not an authority on Bracco's as I have only had this one, so I can only tell you about my boy.

Around the house he has two modes, one, looking out the garden window for anything that moves & the other attempting to become a lapdog on anyone showing the slightest weakness.

Outside the jekll & hide routine kicks in & his brain slips into his nose. Please bear in mind that I have not owned any hpr breed before, let alone a nose on legs capable of disapearing before I can even draw breath to whistle & shout. I admit that I have found training him the most frustrating task I have ever taken on. For a very stubborn dog he is very hard to chastise, such a sensitive nature. At just over 2 yrs now he is showing signs of settling down.

I have heard that the bitches bond well with men & that the dogs are slightly more stubborn, other than that I am not aware of any specific traits between the sexes. So I guess it's more down to personal preference. I preferred the larger size & looks of the dogs & knowing that I didn't have to consider them coming into season. Try the Bracco Society web page, I know many of the committe members own both. Good luck, Simon

guy

helenf

Thanks for your replies....don't sound too different to any dog/bitch behaviour.

My bitch is clicker trained and whistle trained, she too is a nose on legs but her recall is spot on.....she does go out very far but always checks in with us and always returns on her whistle...however it does take her time as she is so far out sometimes.

she is very easy to work with and has always been so... I gave her the rule sheet at eight weeks, she read it and said "ok I've got that" and has been a doddle ever since.....
Simon you are right about them being sensitive to train...no need to discipline just work work work.......

she adores clicker work with me amnd gets very involved in working....

true I have couch potato inside and far reaching hunting girl outside...bets of both worlds to my mind!

I spoken to several of the Bracc society about this but can't get much positvity about the boys at all....the most positive thing from one was that there is no difference? Another breeder said she would never have another male!!!!!!!!!!!

So not much help really Confused

helenf

piddling on everything is boring and my viz does that already!!

spettadog

Hi Helenf

I have met many many male Braccos and while they are not the easiest, they are certainly very trainable - just like the bitch. I have 2 bitches and would love a boy but dont want to upset the apple cart with my working cocker.

I think if you set the ground rules at 8 weeks you will be fine. Whether you want a boy or a girl you are still going to have to train them and the first Bracco is always the hardest because you have to learn what makes them tick.

While every dog is different, I find that working with them at an early age is the best way to gain respect and set the boundaries.

I hope this helps you. I would not hesitate to get a male if I didnt have my working cocker as he would be so upset to have competition in his hareem!!!

If you want really good advice about working a male speak to John Abraham of Ardenstorm. He works his Braccos and has had the breed for 10 years. He will give you the lowdown and I am sure he will agree with what I have said.

Kind regards
Annie

helenf

spettadog, thanks for the great reply, I shall take your advice and speak to the Ardenstorm man, will let you know what he says.

Must confess I am getting very excited.....have been reading everyones training diaries and must confess I fancy attempting to work this new pup.......need to find someone local to me who can take me under theor wing and knock me into shape so I can do justice to both my Bracs....any suggestions for someone down in south of England?

cressy

I am not a Brac person and have a similar issue in that most people I speak to have no idea (or the wrong idea) of what a Brittany is and so local help is scarce. Chase will be my first attempt to try to work and through the breed club and asking around I am finding help and advice.

As long as you can read diaries, listen to people and then plan how you will try to train your dog you should be ok, I am a complete novice but by listening and learning I will put my neck out and try. Hey, all I can do is mess up and at least my dogs are doing what comes naturally while I try to keep up with their natural talent.

I have had to travel, I listen and watch when my dog isn't exactly 'ready' but all the time I can store info for the future. I am using my old dog to learn for my pup, Mugi has a lot of natural talent but is 11 yrs old and was a pet for 10 yrs. He is soooo keen to learn so while he enjoys our lessons I will continue to use him for me and Chase.

spettadog

HI Cressy and Helen

The reasons I try to work my dogs is to make their lives as full as possible. Its absolutely amazing watching Jack work. The little guy that rules the roost and sleeps on my bed turns into a different dog when he is working!!!! I have most recently "cracked" the Bracco. By that I mean got inside their heads and found out what makes them tick. They are basically very willing to please and if you work with them and use every opportunity as a training opportunity then this is what I have found makes things so much easier.

I have 5 dogs and now take them all out separately - apart from my 2 older doggies who go together with little Jack!! Stella and Ruby get walked separately and every walk is a training exercise. When I used to walk them together they were a nightmare because they both egged each other on. The Bracco can travel a fair distance in a short space of time and I had no control at times. It was really embarrassing. Now I walk them separately and have one to one with them every day - rather than a couple of times a week. This has brought them both on considerably.

The shoot that I go beating on is very informal and small. We could really do with an HPR on it. At the moment we only have spaniels. This is great for flushing etc., but when you really have to drive the birds towards the gun it means that one of the guns has to go behind and drive them forward. If Ruby or Stella were trained up then I could do that with her, leaving them free to shoot.

As I say, its very informal and that's what's great about it. There is margin for error and while it might be annoying when something happens that shouldnt, it isnt as bad as if we were beating on a commercial shoot.

I do this for fun for my dogs. It makes their lives full and interesting and makes me feel very privileged to have dogs that can do a days work and enjoy it.

John may be able to put you in touch with somebody who can help in your area. He is on the committee of the BIS so will have contacts. Unfortunately, a lot of the Braccos in the UK are shown as opposed to worked. I would like my Stella to be a dual purpose dog and be able to do both!!!! Wishful thinking on my part!!! LOL

Who are you getting your new pup from? Is is working or show lines? At the moment it doesnt really matter because the dogs are relatively new to the country so havent had a chance of having their working ability knocked out of them. But that will come. Like it does with every breed!!!!

Kind regards
Annie

helenf

Annie, I too have five dogs and been in rescue and fostering for years and I think I might have got lucky with my Brac, compared to years of rescue gsds a mad english pointer not to mention others, this gal has been a doddle ! I keep hearing how Bracs are not easy but this has not been so with Ruby...

that said I did put in masses of early work with her seperate from my other dogs.

we did alot of early recall work and I managed to sneak on to a HWTM music class and mess about with a clicker with her doing little bits of heelwork moves just for fun ( no routines or anything)...she adored that and both of us got totally lost in each other within the class.....I think this made all the difference, that and teaching her manners early.

she does go far out when we walk but we walk in the surrey hills and around which satisfys her hunting ....................her recall is good and she has no interest in dogs or people she doesn't know.

She is playful but would rather do a bit of clicker with me than party with the other dogs.

I also have a young rescue Vizsla who has been relentless to work with as he came from tied up on a lead in a garden ALONE for his socialisation period resulting in a dog who finds EVRYTHING total delight, EVERYTHING belongs to him.....he is a one man party................... keeping him calm and focused has been and continues to be an ongoing project...he is hilarious..no dog has ever made me laugh as much as this boy does and he so wants to work but his enthusiasm over takes him...bless!

So Ruby, by comparison has been a breeze...have I just got lucky? Don't know...
My second pup is coming from the breeder I got Ruby from and it is a repeat mating, hence why I couldn't resist..... Shaneco ( Edna Craske).

I would love to have someone "mentor" me around here but those I have looked into locally have been too harsh imho for the Bracs.

helenf

cressy.....I have found reading the diaries fascinating and inspiring...one of the writers should write a simple training programme for the rest of us.
That would be really useful... I am confident in my abilities to raise a dog to be well mannered and well versed in good general obedience but in the specifics of "proper" hpr training I am a novice and would love some one on one coaching.

What I like about this forum is how helpful and non confrontational people seem and that they are truly enjoying their dogs...so glad I FOUND THIS PLACE!

spettadog

HI Again

My chestnut girl is called Ruby!!!! Great minds etc., etc.,

I noticed that Edna Craske is expecting another litter. I dont know much about her dogs to be honest so can't say but there are some lines that have entropian so you have to be very careful. That said, if you want your dog for working etc., entropian wouldnt be a problem because it can be operated on. It would just mean that you cant show or breed from the dog!!!

I think you will cope with any sex of Bracco. From the sounds of it I think you have done a wonderful job with Ruby.

I do agree that some of the gundog folks are too harsh on their dogs and there is absolutely no need for it. A Bracco would just fold under some of the treatment I see going on. I only use kind, reward based methods with my dogs and it works a treat.

Let me know how you get on with your puppy and how you get on with JOhn. He works offshore so sometimes he isnt available but his wife Hazel is really nice too and she will help you a lot.

Good luck
Kind regards
Annie

helenf

Ha Ruby too! I will keep you posted... I feel about six years old right now am soooo excited...sad in a grown woman!

helenf

Where did your Ruby come from and how have you found life with her? Have to say I am knocked out by this breed...my friends husband asked her if I was getting another one of those "baggy" dogs haha bloomin' cheek baggy!

spettadog

Hi Helen

I am absolutely smitten by the breed but I am becoming more and more concerned about the health issues that are cropping up. This is something you dont get to hear about unless you speak to those in the know!!! There's one breeder who is breeding from a bitch known to have pups with entropian/ectropian etc., and asking a princely sum for them!!! I had a scare a little earlier this year with my young bitch as she was diagnosed with entropian. However, she had had an eye infection and I am sure she had some damage from stubble and that's what caused it. She is fine now but everybody closed ranks and didnt want to know. The BIS have no database of lines that are having problems and the breed is about to come off the import register in January. I personally think that is shocking. I will not join the BIS until they get their act together as I feel they do nothing!!!

There has also been an incidences of HD or UAP!!!! That's not good in a breed so young in this country.

I caused a real rucus when I thought Stella had entropian. I think I got a few people very scared. I paid £1000 for her and I expect a dog to be healthy and not have genetic defects.

I'll pm you with further details of what to look for in the breed if you want, but it is essential that you check if the dogs have been eye tested, hip scored and preferably elbow scored. THe eye test is a recommendation of the BIS but my breeder didnt bother having it done.

I've learned a lot about this breed and the people within it, when Stella had that problem. The only people now that I would take on board as being truly for the breed are the people that I recommended you talk to. They are fab and gave me loads of advice on what to do.

I hope this doesnt put you off. They are a wonderful breed and they are absolutely under my skin. Im concerned though that, already there are people who have brought dogs into the country that are planning to show and breed from them in order to make money. There's a lot of money to be made at £1000 a pup!!!!

Take care
Annie

helenf

I have heard about this breeder too!! Yes please pm me because I only have two points of reference at present and neither are satisfactory........

I came by Ruby because I was wanting another dog, had loved my english pointer and decided on an hpr..... had been hovering around the idea of Spins or poss GSP and saw someone with Spins and this very precocious adolescent Brac who was clowning about hasseling her other dogs and BAM! That was me gone!
I thought "I want one of those!" Went home and researched everything I could read about them ( did know of them but had never seen one, pics don't do them justice) spoke to several members of BIS and got names of two breeders with litters...here I am now.

So yes I would love to talk to you in more depth about your discoveries...was a vet nurse for 20 yrs so am all for healthy lines..it woul;d be so easy to spoil this breed quickly because people are greedy!

windem bang

Hi, I know very little about this breed having only seen a couple of them and never having seen one working. The health issues disturb me, isn't it possible for the people importing them to check on the major health issues BEFORE importing what will be the foundation stock of this country?

Are the dogs being imported coming from tested show AND working lines or are the importers only interested in winning shows with them over here?

It would be to the future good of the breed if only real dual purpose dogs were imported, in my opinion anyway!

Bill T.

spettadog

Hi Bill

I couldnt agree more with what you are saying. The first Bracco Italianos that were imported were imported by the Shaws and he only sold to working peeps. However, he had 2 litters that were born at the same time and ended up with 21 puppies that all needed homes. He was being pressured into selling to show homes and so he had to give in, in the end.

THere are a few people who genuinely work their Braccos but as far as I am aware, the only bracs that are being imported are for the show ring. Sure, the purchasers may say that they will work them but they really have no intention of working them as they probably have too many dogs!!! The dogs get walks, probably in the countryside, and then put back into kennels. Its no life for a dog that is bred to work all day.

I know of a specific kennel that was quite prominent in the early stages of the development of the breed that is renowned for entropian. The Italians also dont see a problem with entropian; they simply get their dogs operated on. So, really, you are at a loss as to what you are bringing in.

I have 2 dogs both sired by the same stud and my first bitch has grossly overshot jaw but it doesnt bother her in any way. I have had her speyed because I would never breed from her although in every other way she is a beautiful example of the breed. My other bitch had this possibly problem with entropian. Now, I have decided to leave it 6 months because at the moment it isnt bothering her and the vet says its too minimal to operate on but things could change and then I will have another bitch that has genetic faults. This isnt right!!! The vet thinks it was caused through the accident but another specialist said she needed an operation and that her eyes were malformed. Eh!!! That is a breed characteristic. The problem is that nobody knows the breed so you get all these stupid assumptions.

I have done a lot of research since this happened and, I have to say, at the present moment in time I wouldnt buy a pup in the UK without knowing that the eyes, hips and elbows have been tested. One person actually bred from her bitch again after it threw pups with UAP. This is the sort of thing you are having to witness happening to a wonderful breed. And its not even off the import register yet. No wonder Jonathon Shaw didnt want show peeps to get their hands on it. They breed for conformation and not for working ability and the breed will suffer tremendously in the long run unless something is done now.

Hence the reason I wont join the BIS. Hence the reason I always write a letter to advise them when something is happening. Hence the reason I am now researching the SRHP as I would hate to see what this breed will be like in 10 years!!! Gee, they dont even have a database of faults within the breed. What is going on?

Kind regards
Annie

helenf

Annie, I rang and spoke to Hazel at Ardenstorm and she was an excellent recommendation! Thankyou! I got some realistic advice about merits of dog or bitch and am much more aware of what I am going to do/look for... I think the people IO spoke to had a very one dimensional impression of the dogs, Hazel and I seem to be on the same wave length ( we put the pet dog world to rights too in our hour and a half long conversation!!!)...so I am happy to follow her advice...just got to speak to Edna now.

Thankyou again most useful and enjoyable!!!!!

josie

I'm a bit surprised (and shocked!) that pups are going for £1000!!!!!

I mean, surely it doesn't cost any more to breed and raise a litter of Braccos than a litter of any other breed? In which case, it just seems to be capitalising on how few of them there are in the UK at the moment and asking for that price because they can?!

helenf

I know! pd £900 for mine £950 this year!

windem bang

Hi Annie, (Spettadog) Sorry to hear you have had bad luck with hereditary things like overshot. I'm glad you're not my owner though for I myself am undershot and I have been bred from Exclamation

What part of Scotland are you from? If you are not too far away we could meet up and make up excuses for our respective dogs!!! Laughing

Bill T.

spettadog

Hi Again

My, I seem to have caused a wee bit amusement since my re-join!!!! Yes, £1000 for a pup. Its an absolute disgrace. There is no difference between rearing a litter of Braccos and a litter of, say, weims!!! Just getting on the Bracco bandwagon. That is the reason there will be many unscrupulous people willing to buy Bracs and breed from them.

Bill!!! LOL!!! Your comment on overshots made me laugh!!! I live just outside Edinburgh, in the countryside between Newbridge and WIlkieston. I have to say I aint perfect myself but I havent been bred from!!!! LOL

Helen. Did you tell Hazel it was annie that recommended you speak to them? She would know who I was. I'm glad you now feel more confident about the breed. I would have no hesitation at all about getting a male. They are very lovable dogs. I just think that most of them are in the wrong hands and the dogs are going nuts!!! Probably get shot down in flames for that. Having said that Ruby is lying flat out on my bed at the moment. They do like their home comforts the Bracco, dont they?

Speak soon
Annie

helenf

oh yes! We were out on Esher common earlier ( her favourite place in the whole wqorld!) she is now stretched out on a vet bed giving it "large" on a monster of a marrow bone.

I think I may go for a dog now after listening to Hazel, I would like the experience of both, but am going to weigh things up when I see the pups. I think you may be right about "wrong hands". Fortunatley I am on the "priority list" so guess I will have more choice this time.
The parents have been tested as you mentioned but I have heard the rumblings within BIS ( am a member) about dishonourable breeding but some will never listen ( years working in gsd rescue taught me that groan!)

That aside it is so nice to be able to be a Bracco bore on here and meet someone else who I can wax lyrical with .

spettadog

HI Helen

I'm sure when Stella and Ruby were real youngsters I had a good old moan about them. However, none of my friends have bracs so all they saw was this wonderful docile beast at home. They saw none of the antics outside. This was especially so when I first had 2 so prepare yourself for that.

But how can you moan about a breed that is so loyal, trusting, docile, good natured, biddable etc., etc., I could go on all night!!!! They are just such beautiful dogs and I am concerned about the way things are going at the moment regarding health. I think they need more people in the breed like you and I so that we will stand up for the breed and not merely "sit on the fence".

Annie

helenf

Agreed it's only by demanding as a customer the best that we can do anything.....I am concerned that once the "secret" is out about how fab they are the breed will become even more corrupted.

spettadog

Well, people say if you breed properly there is no money to be made. I'm sorry I dont agree with that. At £1000 a pup. If your bitch were to have 8 pups that's £8000. I know somebody who just had a litter of 12. £12,000 - that's more than an annual wage for some people. And they didnt bother to elbow score or eye test.

I think when you are charging this amount of money (or any money for that part!) for a puppy then you have to make sure that you are breeding from only healthy dogs.

The Sale of Goods act covers this but when you are talking about puppies this is where it falls down because most people would not be willing to give them up. When I first got Stella she was in the vet the following day (Sunday!) with a gastric problem. She was very ill and needed antibiotics. I could have returned her but couldnt do it. They didnt get the insurance right as they were first time breeders but were able to use the stud on the assumption that the stud dog owner would give all the info etc., When it came down to it they thought they knew better. I had to fight to get £300 to cover my vets bills. When Stella got a 2nd at SKC in August I sent them a cheque for £300 for the full cost. I didnt want anybody saying "yeh, but she only paid £700 for that dog and its turned out to be a show dog". I wanted to make sure everything was A/OK.

However, when STella had the suspected entropian neither one of the breeders really wanted to know until I started talking about reporting to KC etc., and Sale of Goods Act and all of a sudden they wanted to meet me and see Stella. When I turned up they were there mob-handed and all very well rehearsed. I felt like the bad one. I have learned a very hard lesson and that's why I just you to make sure that everything is in order - and of course anybody else who is considering buying a Bracco. I wouldnt want anybody to go through what I went through.

I couldnt care less what they think of me. The health and welfare of my dogs always comes first!!!!

Annie

helenf

thankyou don't keep quiet!

weima

spettadog

weima

Thanks for explaining. I understand where you are coming from. The BIS will have to be seen to be more pro active if you are ever to get CC status. Some clubs are just like that though Rolling Eyes

windem bang

It sounds to me as if some are in it mainly for the money and others are looking to make names for themselves in the show world by being among the first breeders in this country. I'm told there is a lot of that going on.

None of that would greatly concern me but I would like to see the importers be responsible enough to bring in healthy, definite dual purpose foundation stock. That does not appear to be the case. If stock that has not been tested for working ability is being imported pity help the breed, there will be some very disappointed buyers who had hoped to work their unsuitable dogs.

I have no finger in this pie, no axe to grind, that is just the way it appears to me as an outsider.

Bill T.

weima

I think the new Dutch imports have been trained to work although perhaps only the basics as they were older pups when brought in. I don't know only from what I've read in the Breed Record Supplement.

helenf

Have to say as first time Brac owner I have had to find my own way thro this breed.....the advice I have had up to now has been of little specific use, HOWEVER, the conversation I had yesterday with Hazel ( Ardenstorm) has been of more value than anything else I have heard..........

the most valuable thing has been that she has confirmed to me that my understanding of the Brac ... well my Brac at least ... has been pretty accurate and she has given me more confidence in my ability to handle either gender.... I could have listened to her all day.

Some other "experts" havew been very "foggy" with their advice/ info and a less experienced owner than myself would surely have been in trouble?

It seems to me that there is not enough real knowledge about this breed in this country yet.... I just hope this breed doesn't get too popular until we have more people like the Ardenstormers (?) to help nuture and protect these special dogs.

I have owned numerous dogs over the years, enjoyed them all but the Brac, for me, is the ultimate dog...how can we improve the situation as ordinary owners?

spettadog

spettadog

windem bang

Hi Annie, I do agree, I think that your present breed club needs to be dismantled and you should all start from scratch, standing back and taking a long cool look at the situation. It is of prime importance to start with the right foundation stock. Beautiful roses may grow from a heap of crap but dogs do not!

That is a terrible thing to say but it is better to hurt the feelings and the bank balances of a few people now than to plow on ahead in the wrong furrow. The health and the future of your breed as workers, pets and show dogs depends on what happens within the next couple of years.

Would it matter so much if the breed was not accepted by the K.C. for a few more years or until things are properly sorted out?

If I were trying to start off with a new breed in this country I would move very slowly. No dog or pup would be imported until as many health checks as possible had been done. I understand most people want dogs that are of show standard and that's fair enough. I am interested in how well dogs work, so far I have heard little to reassure me on that score for nobody seems to be using them for work!

If money was not a big issue I would be in favour of buying in what is hoped would be quality pups then GIVING them to various really good H.P.R. trainers around the country on breeding terms. Let the people who know what is required sort out the wheat from the chaff, then breed from the best. This would take a while but in the long run would be beneficial to the breed and would provide the foundation stock for real DUAL PURPOSE dogs.

Very,very unlikely to happen , isn't it?

Bill T.

helenf

oh what a brilliant idea! I don't think it will happen tho.
The other thing that struck me thinking about this was how little I was vetted/ questioned about wether I could manage this breed?!!!

Annie how could you have Brac and never let it off lead? What torture for the dog! I knew I would have a dog who wanted to go off so I worked my n--s off with early recall and distraction training...it wasn't hard just time consuming but it has so paid off.

I haven't find her hard to train at all, in fact she has been one of the easiest dogs I have ever owned, she is gentle a little shy but not to the point of becoming unsteady sooo willing to work....she adores clicker work.

spettadog

Well, you never know. If you fight hard enough for something then it may just happen!!!!

Now, Bill!! If you are near to me you could perhaps be my training buddy and help me to learn how to really work Stella. If you had the time. I think Ruby is a bit old at 3 but Stella is just 15 months and I have been doing the basics with her. She's not as easy as Ruby, I have to admit but she has the enthusiasm.

I probably just play at it. I know June Laing works her Braccos in the Borders. A guy in Carlisle deer stalks with his and he says they are the best dogs he's ever had. JOhn Abraham works his dogs. There are a couple of others but most of them are in show homes.

I have to say that I was actually vetted very thoroughly before I got Ruby. In fact, even before I enquired I was put forward as the perfect home!!! Dont know how that came about but it did. Think that might have changed now though because I have questioned health issues etc., The general concensus at the moment though is to get as many of them into show homes as possible. This seems to be the aim!!!

I really did think that I had done my homework before I got his breed. I researched for 2 years; spoke to breeders at shows etc., I dont think until you actually have a breed and get to know more people that you really understand the issues re behaviour, training and health. I would say I am fairly up to speed now but there is so much more that I can learn - and want to learn - in the hope that I can at least ensure that the breed isnt ruined completely!!!!

Kind regards
Annie

windem bang

Hi Annie, I have known June Laing for about 20 years she has a good and well deserved reputation with working dogs. Friends of mine have one of the g.s.p. bitches June bred and they are very pleased with her.

I have a feeling you and I have met before. I hope I didn't say anything rude Laughing

I think we passed each other near the river Almond about 2 months ago, you would not have noticed me but I remember seeing a Bracco!
We live about 10 miles from each other, I'm in Livingston. Not too far to travel unless you're walking Shocked

Bill T.

spettadog

Hey Bill you do live very close to me. Did you have your GSP with you at the Almond? If so, I do remember you but we passed some distance away. I try to keep my dogs out of trouble if I can so tend to call them in if I see anybody. People get quite a fright when they see big lollaping dogs that look like bloodhounds running towards them. Eeeeek!!!! It was probably Stella you saw, because Ruby would be off hunting!!! LOL

We could meet up. That would be great. I have a good lot of land beside me. I live in the middle of nowhere really, surrounded by fields. I have a woodland in my garden that would be great for training. Lots of partridges, pheasants, hares around. I'll pm you so that we can arrange something.

I know friends of June Laing. I dont know her personally. My Stella was out of a bitch that she had working for her but gave away to a pet home. One of my buddies was beating in the borders a couple of weeks ago and she had a bracco out picking up along with her GSPs. He had never really seen a Bracco working full on (cos I just play at it really!!!) and he said they worked very differently; a lot slower than GSPs etc., I do believe that is true but they are very definite workers and thorough!!!!

I'll pm you and perhaps we can meet up!!!

Kind regards
Annie

windem bang

P.M. me whenever you like Annie, I'm retired so I'm usually free to wander about! It may have been me you saw with a G.S.P. but there are two or three other guys in this area with them. They are a popular breed around here.
If Braccos are slower than G.S.P.'s they would probably suit me nowadays, Buck is a bundle of nervous energy and I often have a hard time controlling him. I see him enter some cover and think, "O.K. he's about there." but he's not, he's 50 yards or more further on!

The ground you have sounds very good, I've been scratching around in some very rough areas working Buck and trying to find a very few, very wild pheasants! Maybe we can help each other out, I badly need someone to throw dummies for Buck at a distance to improve his marking.
See you soon I hope. Very Happy

Bill T.

helenf

Whoohoo!!!!!!! The litter of Bracs I am getting pup from were born on Saturday....spoken to breeder..puppy collection day 8th December..how excited am I!!!!!!!! Razz

weima

Great news! Who are you getting a pup from?

helenf

Shaneco ............ Edna Craske

weima

guy

helenf

what are you getting ?

guy

a hand full of trouble ...

which started like this

helenf

BLESS

spettadog

Just wanted to let you know that Stella got 3rd place in Junior today at Gundog Breeds of Scotland. It was a mixed class so I am absolutely delighted with the result. She has only been shown twice. The first time she got second and this time she got third.

Its nothing to do with my handling mind you. I would rather be out in the fields with her. However, I donned my suit today and went for it big time. Got some invaluable advice from some Brac people about show presence etc., so have a lot to go on now.

I feel more confident every time I take her in the ring. She was a wee darling. She was delighted to see Bill (windem bang!) who made a big fuss of her. She never forgets somebody who gives her a cuddle.

We are really tired now. One of my most favour Braccos got best Bracco today - Luca (Homstar Duccio). He is a wonderful dog, fabulous temperament, confirmation etc., I think he was quite taken by Stella but she was having none of it and was playing the old "treat them mean and keep them keen" game!!!

Annie

helenf

one week to go before new Bracco baby comes !!!!!!!!!!!!! So excited can't tell you!

spettadog

Remember your camera. Have you decided on a name yet?

Annie

Ghilliegumdrop

Are you going to have a christening party, and if so, are we all invited Question

It sounds better than waiting for the big Santa day Very Happy

helenf

no haven't decided on her name yet..depends on her personality...how does one organise a forum christening party? do we just all get slaughterd at our PCs and then try and post (winks)?

I haev the choice between two..one of which is a little devil...like a challenge......thought teh name Dervish might suit her!

spettadog

I went for the little devil in the litter when I picked Stella. The other one was the pick of the litter but she was too quiet for me. It was the same with wee Jack, my cocker!! The other one was all comfy cozy and I wanted to go for him but my friend said he'd be too quiet for me and said I'd be better going for Jack.

I have to say I have never regretted either choice. Dervish sounds lovely. Very different!!!!

Cant wait to see the photos.

Kind regards
Annie

PS: That sounds like a good idea re the christmas party. All getting smashed and sending posts. ROFL

helenf

quite like Sorscha ...means bright and Merrigan...pagan names I like.

Ghilliegumdrop

Well look how Merlin has turned out Twisted Evil

and that's a pagan name, a bit like him Rolling Eyes

If we are all going to get smashed at our PCs will we know which key to press Question

Talking of names...my friend has just bought a chocolate/red Border Collie bitch pup and is asking me for names...any ideas anyone Question

DesO'Neile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4HrvXrGB7g

Hapsberg

Jon,

Are you Shelley's Jon per chance?

Claire

Bracco1

Hi Claire,

It is a small world...............yes shel is my better half

Hapsberg

Yay! Fancy meeting you here then! Smile

Bracco1 · jacob

Hey Claire, any ideas on getting jacob to retreive i've tried lots of different things since he was a pup he's never really been that keen on it, Alex suggested tying pheasant wings to a dummy to try and get the interest going.
I've just gone back to basics by just playing with a toy and getting him to bring it to me a couple of times then put it away...what do you think, any other ideas

Thanks

Jon

Hapsberg

We couldn't get Cara to retrieve for ages and got around that by playing games with Lee's socks. We didn't bother with any "steadiness" exercises, just played with her with the socks. When she was bringing those back 10 times out of ten, we then put one on a puppy dummy and she retrieved it!! Eventually we had the dummy with just a strip of sock around it and finally we got her retrieving them without any sockage whatsoever. LOL Maybe you could try that with Jacob??

Alternatively, just send him to me as I lurve him. LOL

Bracco1

I'll try that.....thats if he can actually survive the smell of my socks.......AND NO YOU CANT HAVE HIM............... LOL

Hapsberg

I am quite sure that your socks can't be any worse than Lee's socks. Rolling Eyes

If you won't send him to me, I shall just have to make do with a schnoogle with him at the party!

Finncally · Bracco Pointing test Lauder

Thought you may be interested, some stunning photos from the Bracco Italiano Pointing Test at Lauder last week......

http://davidgosman.zenfolio.com/f95119650/

(Look for the Bracco folders)

I was there with my girls (GSPs) and had a really good day. It was really good to see so many of the breed from the society that was organizing the day...

(hope this doesn't contravene forum rules....)

guy

I am not aware of any rules that stop anyone promoting HPR dogwork. Smile

Actually I would go as far as to say any working gundog dogwork.

Finncally

Guy, I wasn't sure because, its a commercial website.
I look at it as window shopping, my better half sees it has an investment in pictures of the girls Laughing

Ghilliegumdrop

I knew someone who called her dogs Havoc and Chaos.......trouble was they lived up to their names Exclamation

windem bang

That someone wasn't you was it Jan Question

Bill T.

Ghilliegumdrop

Not likely, that would have been asking for trouble Rolling Eyes

Friend of mine, who has moved up to a nursing home in Scotland, used to breed show greyhounds....must have been mad, they are as thick as two short planks and daft with it Exclamation

When she moved to the house she has just left there was a swimming pool there which they emptyed ready to fill in, every day they had to get one or t'other of these stupid dogs out of the thing. How they didn't break their necks nobody knows Rolling Eyes

Bareve

Ghilliegumdrop

You probaly do Sharon as it is Daphne Gilpin of the Wenonah's. Do you remember that she used to come with me quite frequently when I was showing Jaffa Question

She [or rather her daughter] sold up the house near Claire after her mom went into a home near there. However Daphne's brother got wind of this and came down and took Daphne back up to Scotland with him. She is now in a retirement home near him. I have been told, so I don't know how true it is, that all Daphne's remaining dogs have been put down and her daughter has moved to Ireland [without her partner Exclamation

] It's very sad considering how much thought, time and money went into building up that kennel.

PS If there was ever a case for docking it's greyhounds....every time they wagged their tails there was blood everywhere. The amount of money spent at the vets must have been enough to keep him in beer for ever Very Happy

Bareve

Ghilliegumdrop

She was a stuck up little madam if ever there was one....got a lot of people's backs up, and she bullied her mom. She did try to do it once when I was there.....she never did it again tho' [at least when I was with Daphne] There are several people who have told me they couldn't stand her, including a lot of the greyhound people Exclamation

Still it's nice to know that Daphne is now with people she likes and trusts.

chiendog

Does anyone have a current email address for Jonathan Shaw? I understand he is in South Africa now.

A private message would be fine.

Thanks!

terrier

anniebrac

I completely agree that the Bracco doesnt cost any more to breed than any other dog. It was actually somebody who breeds purely for profit that raised the price to £1000. Unfortunately, we now have a puppy farmer in our breed who was advertising on epupz selling his puppies for £1500. I have since found out that the stud dog has cataracts!!! He is now advertising that he is planning 2 litters from 2009 - and from the stud dog that has cataracts. He imported 2 dogs and 2 bitches from Hungary. I am now privvy to information that the breeder he imported the dogs from has had 6 litters in 3 years from the same bitch and has falsified pedigrees. Its a disgusting state of affairs and one that I am working hard with my colleagues in Hungary to try and put right. I would urge everybody who is thinking of buying a Bracco puppy to make sure you do your homework before buying one. Ensure that all health checks have been carried out - that means hips, elbows and eyes and that you are buying from somebody who has a true love of the breed with experience and knowledge. All is not as it should be for a breed so young!

I have had this wonderful breed now for almost 5 years and have spent most of that time learning about the breed. I have never bred a litter in that time. They are a wonderful breed but, unfortunately, like a lot of other rare breeds they are now getting into the wrong hands. I despair about the future of the breed unless something drastic happens very soon!

Kind regards
Annie

PS: Lost my original sign-on name so had to re-register. Now moved to Fife and the dogs are loving their long walks in Devilla Forest and along the beach in front of the house! Blissful!!

Bracco Italiano

Bracco Info

bracco

jacob

Bracco Pointing test Lauder