langhaar
|
Criterea for FCI Champion statusAm I correct in assuming if your dog is awarded 3 CACIB's in Ireland you cannot become an Irish champion without a field award ! Is this a trial award or a hunting certificate ? Do UK FT awards count?
Larry showed a German bred UK GSP in Germany for it's third and submitted a working test certificate which was accepted by the VDH so she became a German Champion.
If CACIB'S are given in 2 different countries does this make the dog an International Champion?
What a pity we have to go out of the UK to gain any credit in the ring 
|
Ghilliegumdrop
|
Is it not the same as in the UK ie; 3 CCS make a Show Champion and a field award or SGWC means you can the drop the Show bit 
|
karenb
|
Re: Criterea for FCI Champion status | langhaar wrote: | Am I correct in assuming if your dog is awarded 3 CACIB's in Ireland you cannot become an Irish champion without a field award ! Is this a trial award or a hunting certificate ? Do UK FT awards count?
Larry showed a German bred UK GSP in Germany for it's third and submitted a working test certificate which was accepted by the VDH so she became a German Champion.
If CACIB'S are given in 2 different countries does this make the dog an International Champion?
What a pity we have to go out of the UK to gain any credit in the ring |
Hi
Since affiliation with FCI I understand the national title of Irish SH CH will be gained on achievement of 7 CAC's, if an Irish resident dog wished to claim its Int Ch title it would need to obtain 3 CAIB's in competition elsewhere in Europe.
For Uk based dogs - the Irish SH Ch title is achieved with the 7 CAB's and IF it is already a Sh Ch or Ch here in the Uk will be able to claim its International Title with 3 CAIB's gained in competition in Ireland or elsewhere in Europe.
I have asked for clarification with regards to Field Trials, CAIT certificates or recognised work certificates. As yet the IKC has not responded other than to acknowledge my question. I was curoius to know if an FCI work certificate would be available at IKC field event, and if so what format would be used for the test. My interest stems from the ability to potentially obtain an recognised FCI work certificate in Ireland which could then be used to permit the pursuit of FCI titles in countries which require a FCI work certificate in addition to the CAC's to claim a Shorthair title. Eg Belgium/France. I have been told the FCI do not recognise our FT awards as "recognised FCI work certificates" - I believe they would however recognise the FT Champion Certificate ??
I may be incorrect but I have been lead to believe the title German VDH Ch does not require a work certificate as it is the quivalent of our SH CH award ?? The VDH pages state 5 CAC's only ?? http://www.vdh.de/media/pdf/en/english_dt_champion.pdf
Holland also does not require a work certificate to claim the Dutch Ch title - making my first trip to show in Holland later this summer !!
karen
|
Marjolein
|
Re: Criterea for FCI Champion status | langhaar wrote: |
If CACIB'S are given in 2 different countries does this make the dog an International Champion? |
Yes, as long as the dog is at least 27 months old and that there's at least a year and a day between the two CACIB's!
|
langhaar
|
Have spoken to Tracy who shows in Ireland and its 7 Green Stars and a field award to make up an Irish Champion
CACIB can't be awarded to dogs under 15 months of age.
For a FCI beauty title it's just 3 CACIB'S, am I correct Marjolein ?
As for Germany Ann Gill did need to prove working in the UK and a UK working test place card was deemed enough, this was submitted with her entry.You need 5 " V " gradings for a VDH title . If you get 3 CACIB'S as well this will give you an FCI title too. Konan needed 4 more but we stopped going to the continent with him to campaign him in Imports here.
Why aren't rare breeds allowed at least 1 set of CC's ? We'll be pushing up the daisies before our breed is given this status. Some owners now are giving Irish shows priority instead of breed classes at UK ones, I can understand this.
|
Gunfield
|
For gundogs to achieve a FCI INTCH title they must-
Obtain 2 CACIB`s in two different countries under two different judges
there must be a at least 1 year between these CACIBs
They must alos of obtained a test/trial pass which is specific to its breed and at which the CACT is is being completed for.
hope this helps
kate
edited to say I have a copy of the FCI rules for obtaining the FCI INTCH title if anyone would like it
|
langhaar
|
I've heard the Irish KC will accept UK field trial awards.The FCI rules do state there are " exceptions " so I would have to find out if they will accept them too.
I presume the UK Int Ch Spanish Water Dog just needed 4 CACIB's ?
|
weima
|
| langhaar wrote: | | Some owners now are giving Irish shows priority instead of breed classes at UK ones, I can understand this. |
I can understand this too but I'm not sure it will help your cause in the UK for CC's will it? Won't you have to have a consistent amount of dogs shown in the UK to gain CC status?
|
langhaar
|
I suppose it's catch 22 but with the UK system it's always jam tomorrow !
From 2001 to 2006 we exhibited our dogs in Imports, we were the only kennel of GLP's to do this.For 5 years we had the indignity of parading our dogs if they won BI before the gundog group was judged.During these years imports had entries of nearly 40 at times, more so than some CC breeds. Now as a rare breed we have 6 shows which put on GLP breed classes, the rest of the shows we have rare breeds at a few but mostly NSC sometimes grouped but most of the time with breeds from all the others.So at the majority of shows we are competing against well established breeds before we have a chance of appearing in the gundog group. There are not many group judges who will shortlist a rare breed, however good they are, although it has happened twice.
As an owner/ breeder what would you do ? Attend FCI shows where CACIB's are given to every breed or slog around the UK for little return.I have 4 dogs in the kennel all with numerous BOB GLP, NSC and BI, all with field trial awards too.I think this breed has earned some recognition but because numbers are small CC status is decades away. Is it quantity or quality which makes a breed in the UK ?
I'll get off my soap box now 
|
karenb
|
The rules under FCI are a so difficult to work out as each member country can set its own requirements for each breed. Does a Spanish Water dog need work certificates for FCI titles ??
The email I had from IKC states it will accept a UK FT award as qualification to enter the "working class" so it would seem logical that it will accept a Uk FT Award for its full Ch Title. 7CAC's for a show tittle or 7CAC's plus a FT award for Full Ch Tittle.
The Belgium KC requires 2 CAC's plus a FT award at a BELGIUM trial where CAiT were available for its national title.
Holland requires 4 CAC's for its national title .. no working certificates needed.
I have no news from the VDH as yet.
As for the CACiB's / International Ch Title = this must be applied for via the UK kennel Club. Quote from KC web site
"Exhibitors should be aware that claims for an International title for UK based dogs should be made via the Kennel Club and that a British Champion or Show Champion title is required. For breeds which do not have Challenge Certificate status, there are other requirements which will need to be met before the claim can be put to the FCI. Exhibitors should note that under FCI regulations, a number of breeds are required to pass a working test before the Int Ch title can be awarded. Exhibitors should contact the FCI for further information about this."
I remain very confused as to who can claim an international title as I am sure a UK Sh Ch GSP who gained CACIB's in Ireland has been granted an International Title and yet I know this bitch does not have FT awards ??? Perhaps it was reported incorrectly in the dog press ??
I do however know that without a Uk title the CACIB's cannot be used to claim an Int Ch title as a number of UK GSP's have the required CACIB's (and overseas Ch titles ) but as they are not a Uk SH or Full Ch cannot claim the title.
As for the situation with showing the GLP here in the Uk... think I would look to Ireland / Europe . It is so expensive to campaign a dog why not spend the same money on trying to gain a tittle .. JMHO.
Karen
|
BritAnnie
|
| Quote: | As an owner/ breeder what would you do ? Attend FCI shows where CACIB's are given to every breed or slog around the UK for little return.I have 4 dogs in the kennel all with numerous BOB GLP, NSC and BI, all with field trial awards too.I think this breed has earned some recognition but because numbers are small CC status is decades away. Is it quantity or quality which makes a breed in the UK ?
|
Don't wish for this, Langhaar
Brittanys were given CC status in 1997 - 15 years after they came into the country because registrations had reached the desired level. From then on the KC has rapidly increased the number of CCs available against the wishes of the Club, and now we have 15 sets. To my mind all it has done is produce 'cheap' champions. It is not always the case that quality is good, and in our case sub quality has been made up because of quantity of puppies bred. I have had 4 litters in 25 years( 20 pups) and my stud dogs have siread about the same number again.
No amount of protest to the KC had any effect.
BA
|
|
|
