lexmarco
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First day hunting and picking up on SaturdayThis Saturday is our 14 month old male viszlas first day (with 3 other dogs) hunting and retrieving on live game.
I am interested to hear your thoughts on how to approach this, he is a very sensible "teenager" knows his stop and return whistle under most distractions. He is a keen hunter....unfortunately a bit random on his dummy retrieves, but overall is a pretty well mannered guy.
I have tested him with the gun and he loves it so this side is not the concern. I am most interested in how to start him off on the day...unhook the line and tell him to get into it....or let him watch...with occasional hunt or retrieve...what do you think?
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BritAnnie
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I think it depends on why you are there. I go to a small local shoot with only a few dogs and we are there to provide sport for the guns. So I have a long line that I have Allez on and whilst he knows it is on he does exactly as I ask, going into hedgerows, ditches etc. If it wasn't on he'd probably quarter the fields, although his turning to whistle is good normally. Since most of the birds on this estate stay in the corners and hedges we can get them up higher quicker if i keep him on a line. If your boy is under so much control you'd probably be fine but remember there is a lot of excitement on a shoot day and he will pick up on that..
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lexmarco
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The reason we have been asked to come along is to hunt and retrieve, there are only 10 shooters (eleven if I decide to shoot) and either two or three dogs, 1 very capable the other two long distance runners with hearing difficulties. The last thing I want is for my dog to join the latter group, so will be trying to keep him in good company. My concern is really how to start him off.... stay separate from the other dogs on long line, run him with the skilled dog or treat the whole thing as an experiment let him do his thing and see what happens....I am close friends with all those hunting, so i think it should not be too dramatic if he makes a hash of things
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BritAnnie
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It would be very tempting to let him go with the experienced dog and see what he does. If he then gets too excited you can put him on the line.
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countrygirl
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You say you have worked him on dummies have you done anywork with him on cold game? For me I find this the hardest thing to do to change a dog onto fresh shot warm game after dummies.
I would only want to let your youngster off with the well behaved dogs he is still very young and if he was mine I wouldent want him learning any bad habbits off other dogs.
You dont have formal shoots like us do you? Do you have drives that you pick up on at end or is it all walked up type shooting? If it was picking up at end of drive I would let him off then to have a hunt around, if it is walking up in line with alot of dogs running about I would keep him on a long line and out of trouble.
If given the chance I always pick a spot on the edge of the drive where im out of most of the trouble and I can concertrate on working my dog and also If I was you I wouldent carry a gun the first time so you can give your dogs your full attention.
Hope this helps
Caz
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lexmarco
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He was trained a fair bit with dummies/tennis balls/ back tracking with all sorts, and then one day lost all interest. I have seen this before. So didnt do any tracking retrieving for about a month. The next time we tried again was with a cold pigeon, started with couple of finds in long grass then a couple of retrieves, he had no problem adjusting: I think the break off the retrieves meant he would retrieve anything. So this is where we are at now, He retrieves, follows direction and apart form the distraction of another dog will stop on the whistle....hence my dilemma, now he is going to be exposed to a whole level of new distraction. How much "rope" should I give him is it a time to be patient or shall I let him have some fun, hes a dog after all bred for this purpose. What do you think?
By the way it works like this here (or at least with this group) dogs come in down wind on a block of land, normally hip high crop or bushes, those with guns are on side and corners (area is about 3 or so hectares). A bird shot is retrieved to those with dogs, shooters really don't move a great deal until the area is finished.
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countrygirl
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We do a similar sort of shooting over here on small shoots. My experiance is on a larger shoot where I work as part of a picking up team working behind the line of guns.
Propley the question you need to ask youself is will there be anything happening on Saturday that is likely to teach your dog something you dont want him to learn.
If at the end of the day you are happy for your dog to perhaps get overexcited with the other dogs and start to ignore your commands then you arnt going to do any harm as you say its what you have him for.
It is my first day out this season on Saturday too I will be working my 4 year old wirehair bitch doing her second full season, hopefully after christmas I will take my 16month old out for a few half days.
Caz
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lexmarco
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I think you are right he will probably get over excited, thats surely not an entirely bad thing though.
What I am wondering is if you have a realitively well behaved dog, on his first day of real work is he better running with other dogs or tied to a human on a long time. Where will he learn the most (good and/or wrong).
Good luck with your two Caz
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lexmarco
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Just as an update. It all went pretty well. First field he spent his time springing around not really knowing what was going on. He was'nt interested in any of the other dogs and after finding his first running pheasant about half an hour into things was very proud of himself. He got better and better over the day working himself to exhaustion. He went on three very points, two of which i didn't believe him... handler error. The last was so solid we had a few minutes to prepare ourselves, the poor bird didn't stand a chance.
The only downside to the day was his resistance to retrieve. He would not run in on the birds he pointed, and the ones he found he would hold down, not mauling just keeping his paws on it. He retrieves cold game so I am just thinking he needs a bit of experience.
All in all a good day, and no harm in letting him do his thing, in fact there was one dog hunting with a handler who was so restrictive, not letting him go more than a few feet, whacking him on the side of the head if he whined, poor dog thought he was doing everything wrong the slightest chance he got he was well away from his owner, tail wagging and loving it, I had a chat with him about his training and he told me "you have to have complete control" (I felt like putting a choke collar on him).
I now think if your dog comes back reliably on the whistle then he is ready to hunt, all the rest is the combination of experience and a bit of guidance, if he is hunting for his handler then the mistakes he makes are irrelevant.
Any tips on the retrieving of shot game would be appreciated...
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countrygirl
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Hi Lex
Glad you had a good day with no big disastors.
MY bitch was ok, I got the first bird delivered back to hand and thought great we have cracked it then she was back to throwing then at me or putting then down a way in front 
We had a good drive with the birds falling in a rape field so it was hard work hunting it to find the birds at the end, she started off fine and then was a distance away from me working a line so I thought I would give her a bit of leaway to work it out and she buggered off
Afternoon was a bit disapointing as they decided to do only one drive and the gun I was behind only shot one bird and picked it himself by hand, so I took the chance to work her through some cover just to hunt. She is also stikey on point so need to overcome that.
They are having a retriver trial next week so no work for us, so we wont be out till the following friday and then im taking the youngster aswell  must be mad
Caz
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lexmarco
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Thats a pretty good result Caz, one bird for the afternoon must have been a bit dull for him. We have a free for all system, if a bird gets shot its the first dog there that gets the retrieve, mind you the crops are that high that if a dog is not quickly on to the bird it can be hard to find.
(As a side note to not retrieving on Saturday)I went for a walk yesterday afternoon with a pheasant i had kept from the hunt on Saturday. I put a long line on Manu,told him to sit, threw the bird about 20 feet into some long grass presuming this would be a casual way to start our live bird retrieving training....to my surprise he ran straight out, picked up and returned to a sit in front of me... like he been doing it all his life. The bird was not frozen, definitely had the smell of a shot on it, basically the same bird he wouldn't pick up the day before.
I did this twice more with exactly the same results. How come one day no idea the next day a mere formality?
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Lynn
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But it is now "cold" and I would imagine very different to a dog 
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countrygirl
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I would say the same thing Lynn, I was hoping to bring some birds back on Saturday to practice with but couldent 
Caz
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lexmarco
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The difference between Saturday (no retrieve )and Sunday (perfect retrieve) are:
The bird was cold, possibly smell was somewhat less the following day
No other dogs, guns less stressful environment etc
There was no find involved, he saw it land in the grass 20 feet away
He had a long line on with the cold retrieve
Do you think the major difference was the temperature of the bird? If that is the case then training success is going to be limited unless with recently shot birds.
I am tending to think he retrieved because of the long line, i will try snapping a line on him when he finds a bird next week, the danger is he might think i dont want him near the bird,..... what are the other options?
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countrygirl
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I know alot of people freeze the birds and then defrost them and use them again, thats as long as your wife dosent mind having pheasants feathers and all in your freezer 
Caz
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jas
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Hi lex, i did exactly what you did with my Vizsla yesterday and he is only 8 months! Results were pretty much the same as yours but he didn't point. still young yet i suppose. He had a whale of a time and really enjoyed it, Ishowed him a pigeon that had just been shot but he just didn't know what to make of it.
There were a load of spaniela but he just mainly did his own thing and the others there said he did really well. Highlight was when he chased a hare and I shouted his name, few pips on the whistle and he came back to me!! Well chuffed!!
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lexmarco
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Jas good to hear you had the same experience, I have not met too many Vizslas hunting here, most Germans seem to think they are too soft in comparison to the more dominant breeds.....I am yet to understand this concept.
The first day out our dog was not retrieving, as I explained earlier on the very next day he was right into it. He now has no problems picking up a shot bird, Friday he did 12, if anything he may be a little over keen, so if your dog is not yet pointing i would say chances are he will on the next couple of outings
Vizslas only need to enjoy themselves alongside their owners and they naturally learn a lot of what they need to know.
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