sako75
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Having a litter ?? How does it affect your dog ??I spoke with my mate Gordon last night , he part owns Millie. Gordon bred Millie and wanted her to go to a good home. The intention always being that he would take a litter from her to keep his own line going (beagmhor). Gordon suggested we take a litter from her next year and this has worried me , he originally wanted to take a litter in September but this will mean that FT's are out the window and I argued the case. It was decided that we probably go for sometime in February but I have a few worries / queries ??
1. How does a litter affect your dog afterwards , training etc ?
2. how long will she be out of action / training ?
Anybody got any experience of this and how did your dog perform after having the litter ?? I am worried that she will forget alot of her training if she is out of action for I guess 3-4 months  . Ideally I wanted to spend all next year training in preperation for her first trial (Nov 2008) but this will not be possible now.
Barry.
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windem bang
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Barry, up to now I have bred from lab. ,brit and GSP bitches. They were out of action about 3 months. It did not affect their work, it did not affect their style of work, keen dogs remained keen. A bit of a brush up was needed on their work but even that caused no prblems. The bitches remembered quickly and easily.
I agree that a spring or summer litter is better from a work point of view it also lets the pups get out in the sunshine.
Bill T.
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sako75
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Cheers Bill , That has put my mind at ease !!!
Nothing has been confirmed yet so it may not happen - Gordon is still livid about the whole tail docking ban  I will see him this weekend and discuss it at length and come to an agreement one way or another.
Barry.
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weima
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Re: Having a litter ?? How does it affect your dog ?? | sako75 wrote: | I spoke with my mate Gordon last night , he part owns Millie. Gordon bred Millie and wanted her to go to a good home. The intention always being that he would take a litter from her to keep his own line going (beagmhor). Gordon suggested we take a litter from her next year and this has worried me , he originally wanted to take a litter in September but this will mean that FT's are out the window and I argued the case. It was decided that we probably go for sometime in February but I have a few worries / queries ??
1. How does a litter affect your dog afterwards , training etc ?
2. how long will she be out of action / training ?
Anybody got any experience of this and how did your dog perform after having the litter ?? I am worried that she will forget alot of her training if she is out of action for I guess 3-4 months . Ideally I wanted to spend all next year training in preperation for her first trial (Nov 2008) but this will not be possible now.
Barry. |
None of my bitches have ever been affected by having a litter. They have still remembered exactly what they knew before so a litter makes no difference to them.
I usually carry on as normal with mine until they are 7 or 8 weeks pregnant depending on how big they are & what they are able to manage. Anchor had her 1st litter in a November & when the pups were 6 weeks old I took her picking up [saggy boobs & all!] She loved it & was glad to be back out.
If possible I would try to go for a spring/summer litter so that you can get her back to fitness for the shooting season. If she has regular seasons, you can more or less choose to have a litter when it suits you but if they are 6 monthly like Pagan tends to be, it is either the showing season or the shooting season which suffers. Anchor was every 3.5 months so I had plenty of options 
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DesO'Neile
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At the time Roxy won her first stake this year she was six weeks in whelp. Her second place was a fortnight later. She produced one pup that died and less than three weeks later she was running at her best again. This of course wasn't planned that way it just so happened. " No man can serve two masters". If you are going to breed the bitch then give her the time to have the pups and don't start training until she is ready. Don't set yourself a schedule based on the date of a trial. The bitch mightn't be ready and the pups might have been weaned early to no good effect.
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tashap
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It might be worth you saying to your friend that at the moment people are struggling to sell pups. I thought very seriously about this as I need a pup back and have put it off and put it off for quite a while.
There has to be more to taking a litter at worst there is the risk of losing the bitch and the puppies at best you get a litter which at the moment you might have trouble selling and have the responsibility of for their lifetime.
When does your bitch come into season??? Might help you decide.
Mine comes in several times a year but usually March around crufts and aug/sept just short of the shooting season but she will come in if there are other dogs we are training with that are in season. I opted for March if I breed from mine because its out of the shooting season pups will be born for end spring/summer and it doesn't disturb anything else I've got planned.
Also worth taking a look at your agreement with your breeder some aren't worth the paper they are written on.
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Claire
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Hi Tasha
I know you won't know Barry's breeder but they are very good decent people who wouldn't take a litter without seriously thinking about everything. They are well established breeders and have been in weims for about 15 years or so. Not saying you are implying otherwise but thought I'd just mention it so you were aware 
Taking a litter frightens the life out of me personally because so many things can go wrong. Not sure if I would ever take a litter from Whistle because I have other plans in the pipeline but if I did I know I would be a worrying idiot  
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josie
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Hmm, now Claire I want to know about these "other plans" which involve wiry coats, or am I putting 2 and 2 together and making 50?! 
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Claire
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LA LA LA LA LA Can't hear you
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BenB
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Claire - are you succombing to the gwp lure? COME TO THE DARK SIDE!!!!
Tasha: It might be worth you saying to your friend that at the moment people are struggling to sell pups.
All breeds or Weimies or .... tell me more!
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josie
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Ok, now wiry coats are all well and good. But there are GREY wiry coats and, er other less superior colours....
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BenB
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Since when has beige been a superior colour. Come to think of it - millions of grannies can't be wrong.
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Helen S
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Oooh Ben you know how to pull their chains!! 
Helen S
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BritAnnie
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I have held off taking another litter from Freckles because the market for Brittanys has been slow this year except for well known breeders (I suppose I am one really but it still worries me being up here in North Scotland) Freckles didn't get back into physical condition for months after her last litter (they are one and a half now) and she is now nearly 7 so I'm not going to mate her at all now. There were litters down in Englandshire being advertised on Epupz and Champ dogs at 3 and 4 months old.
I only breed when I would like another pup or have at least 3 or 4 people waiting. Since I now have 4 people wanting a pup next Spring I will probably mate Belle, with all lengths of tails expected. Both she and Allez being bobtails there should be a few of those. I hate what these 'do-gooders' have done not only to our breeds but also to our country. They have split us into smaller entities because of their different lobbying techniques - England had a partial ban; Wales had a partial ban starting on a different date; Ireland hasn't decided; Scotland had a total ban starting on a second different date. Docked dogs(legal ones) can be shown in Scotland, docked dogs can't be shown in England or Wales in front of a paying public, so the shows are now not charging, but it doesn't matter because the vets down there won't take the risk of docking in case they get into trouble with the BVA or the law. What a damned mess!!!!!
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sako75
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Tasha , I hear what you are saying re: struggling to sell pups. I have heard a few stories recently about well known breeders down south struggling to sell legally docked pups. The general public seem to think that it is wrong to buy "docked" dogs - that is another thread in itself.
Claire is right about my breeders - they are very consciensious (sp?  ) breeders and are not going to take a litter for the hell of it. Their dilemma at the moment is that they need to have a litter of weims to continue their own bloodline. The docking ban up here has put them off continuing with the breed but they are yet to decide. Personally , I have no interest in owning a weimaraner with a tail but thats just me. I would prefer if they did not take a litter but it is a partnership and the litter issue was discussed before agreeing to take on Millie.
Millie is due to come into season again in February so this would be my preferred time to mate her if it was going to happen. Not sure what will happen.......................
Barry.
P.s The Wirey things are growing on me too - they always remind me of "animal" the drummer out of the muppet show COOL !!!
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windem bang
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It all sounds one hell of a guddle to me. At least as far as I'm concerned whether the dogs have tails or are docked doesn't bother me too much, for show people or for those working nutcase spaniels it must be really annoying. Given our proven abilities to change the looks of dogs by breeding couldn't breeders work on breeding dogs with shorter tails? I suppose the K.C. would object to this if some crossbreeding was needed to start with?
Bill T.
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tashap
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wouldn't bother me if they were reputable breeders or not and NO claire I wasn't making any assumptions about Barrys breeders I have no idea who they are and neither have I checked so my comment is general only. Please stop thinking the worst of my comments they are rarely directed at anyone personally... I'm rude enough to say whatever i have to say to peoples faces.
Its not just down south that people are having problems its in general I know several breeders recently who would usually have a good long waiting list that don't and have been unable to sell their pups both in cockers and weims. My interest being in the weims. Sadly lots of muppets breeding for cash... theres ads for blue longhairs now  on the net.
At the end of the day if you buy a puppy from a breeder no matter how good or bad they are its your dog and you have a right to have some say in the decision of when to breed and not to and if you have other plans then I'm sorry I'd be selfish and say NO. If your ready then fair enough if they have a waiting list that will cover the pups you breed then I'd see no problem with that if your taking a pup back yourself. At the end of the day a well prepared breeder will always have more than one option to be able to continue their line...
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weima
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| tashap wrote: |
At the end of the day if you buy a puppy from a breeder no matter how good or bad they are its your dog and you have a right to have some say in the decision of when to breed and not to and if you have other plans then I'm sorry I'd be selfish and say NO. |
Millie is in partnership with her breeder so it really comes down to a JOINT decision. I don't think Barry is disputing the litter per se I think he is concerned that it may affect Millie & her training progress.
| tashap wrote: | | If your ready then fair enough if they have a waiting list that will cover the pups you breed then I'd see no problem with that if your taking a pup back yourself. At the end of the day a well prepared breeder will always have more than one option to be able to continue their line... |
Things aren't always black & white Tash as I've said to you before but the problem of Millie's breeders is not that they have 'no option to continue their line' so would need to mate Millie, it is that they have a total docking ban & Gordon [Millie's breeder] is not keen to breed Weimaraners with tails.
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Claire
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"Please stop thinking the worst of my comments they are rarely directed at anyone personally... I'm rude enough to say whatever i have to say to peoples faces. "
Errr Tasha since when did I start thinking the worst of your comments? I merely pointed out that you wouldn't know who the breeders were and so I told you a little about them, purely for your information. At no point did I suggest you were being rude or making assumptions
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tashap
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Do they have enough working homes available for a completely undocked litter?
Our vets here are being puppy specific which I think is a little unfair because no one wants to pick a puppy for working at that age but I can see their point pretty difficult to find a vet at the moment that is prepared to dock.
Sorry Claire but reading your posts always sounds like a ticking off and to be honest I rarely make specific comments about people because its unfair when i don't know their situation so i'm getting a bit miffed at it. Apologies though if that is not your intention.
If a dog is getting ready for trialing then as a working dog surely that would take priority over a litter??? We don't have many weims being trialled... i suppose its different for different people though dependant upon priority???
Would the scottish deem going across the border as flaunting the law a little bit?? Seems silly we don't all have the same regulations.
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Claire
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"Sorry Claire but reading your posts always sounds like a ticking off and to be honest I rarely make specific comments about people because its unfair when i don't know their situation so i'm getting a bit miffed at it. Apologies though if that is not your intention."
Now I'm totally lost because I've no idea how on earth you could come to that conclusion but thats something separate to this thread I think and certainly it was never my intention.
Personally I am always happy to flaunt the law But from what I am hearing, a lot of vets will now dock spaniels but not HPRs And I'm also hearing that they won't event remove dew claws which is still legal anyway
Again on a personal note, this thread is yet another reason why I will never go into partnership with anyone. Heck, its bad enough being in partnership with Gary as we disagree on just about everything
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sako75
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Tashap wrote:
| Quote: | | If a dog is getting ready for trialing then as a working dog surely that would take priority over a litter??? We don't have many weims being trialled... i suppose its different for different people though dependant upon priority??? |
Hi Tasha , My priority is to try and trial my young bitch next year and I personally could not give a damn about having a litter. The problems start when the two partners have conflicting interests (Me -trialling/working , partners- need to have a litter to keep their line going). It is quite a complicated set of circumstances as Gordon (breeder) has not decided if he will carry on with the breed in light of the docking ban. Gordon has already had one undocked litter but with Millies litter he would like to keep a pup but does not want a weim with a tail.
I feel a wee bit under pressure because if it is decided for Millie not to go into pup then I feel a certain amount of pressure will be on me to follow through with the trialling ambitions. As you know many things may not work out re: trialling - she may not be good enough etc and I would feel a bit silly going back to Gordon after 1 or 2 trials and say that I am giving the whole business up.
At the end of the day I will not stop my breeders taking a litter from Millie as this was part of the deal when we agreed to take her. They are fantastic breeders and I think they already have a waiting list for weimaraner pups as they always do - they never have to advertise. Knowing Gordon and Angela , they would never dream of having a litter without our consent - we just have to decide on the best time for all concerned.
Barry.
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weima
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| Claire wrote: | | Tasha wrote: | | "Sorry Claire but reading your posts always sounds like a ticking off and to be honest I rarely make specific comments about people because its unfair when i don't know their situation so i'm getting a bit miffed at it. Apologies though if that is not your intention." |
Now I'm totally lost because I've no idea how on earth you could come to that conclusion but thats something separate to this thread I think and certainly it was never my intention. |
Which Claire is Tash referring to, Claire R or Claire B 
| Tasha wrote: | | If a dog is getting ready for trialing then as a working dog surely that would take priority over a litter??? We don't have many weims being trialled... i suppose its different for different people though dependant upon priority??? |
Not many weis are worked at all [in comparison to other HPR breeds] & some of the ones I've seen are CRAP. Wei's do not have a good reputation in trials either but hopefully that opinion is changing.
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BlackIsler
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| Sako 75 wrote: | | Gordon (he is a GOOD friend) but I think we need to have a good chat about the situation. |
Sounds to me like a Saturday evening sharing a bottle of the finest will resolve the situation.
I bet you didn't expect this enquiry to turn into a quality debate!!! I'm glad you asked the Q before I did.
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