hi

durham pointer · hi

hello there,
for several years i have worked german wire-haired cross lurchers.they are perfect for hunting up and catching rabbits on the moors and reedy edges.

anyway last week i bought a pure gwp.i hope to do a variety of things with it but im a complete novice.

looks a great forum

Helen S

Hi Durham, welcome to the forum.

Have you any photos of the GWP X? They would have been awesome Lurchers.

Helen S

windem bang

Hi there, good luck with your wirey. Very Happy

Bill T.

BritAnnie

Welcome to the forum - I have a German Wirehaired Plonker Rolling Eyes

BA

Ghilliegumdrop

That makes two of you Wink

Then, of couse, theres the rest of the gang, so that makes another three Twisted Evil

BritAnnie

Oh, you are home, are you. Very perky now that M I L has gone! Hope training went well

Helen S

Watch out Jan - breedwise I think you may be outnumbered on here!

Helen S

Helen

Welcome to the board. The only gwpxlurcher I've seen working was on a dvd. Have to say that he wasn't very good at turning but he looked more gwp than lurcher to me. Did yours point?

I've got 2 gwp's and love working them. Great dogs. Where did you get your pup from?

Helen

BenB

Jambo!

I have had a lot of requests to put my GWP to lurchers to make bold foxing dogs.

Best of luck with the wire - what's the breeding?

Ghilliegumdrop

It's OK Helen, I had a GWP once. He was lovely and I still miss him after nearly eight years Crying or Very sad

countrygirl

Hello and welcome I have 2 wires one of each used as picking up dogs,

Caz

durham pointer

im unsure of the exact breeding of my pup,i know the lad who bred the litter,a well known coursing man who used to fly birds of prey,so i trust him when he says the parents were good workers.

it would take me too long to write about the gwp cross so ill keep it short.i think they are perfect for catching rabbits on the right land.they will quarter,point and then either peg or course the rabbit.as i work my dog on grouse moors she will only point and flush gamebirds but was taught not to try and catch them.

pre-ban mine took fox whenever they came across them.my bitch has just finished a hectic season of ratting and rabbiting,both day and night.
she isnt fast but catches well.stamina is a big plus with this cross aswell as good feet.

heres a few pics.my bitch looks heavy but can run faster than she looks,the red and white bitch is a 3/4 bred pointer/greyhound.the chocolate is a 5/8 pointer cross.

the top pic is my gwp pup and the one under is my five month old half cross x half cross gwp/greyhound.

BritAnnie

Gosh, that's quite a haul!!!

durham pointer

we average 15 -20 rabbits in a couple of hours using two gwp crosses.early season you can expect to take bigger numbers of rabbits.we rarely use ferrets,we like to see a dog hunt up,point and then either take the rabbit in its form or course it.
in a normal week ill do a nights lamping and a full weekends hunting of some kind.also twice a week we lamp a few rats for her alongside my terrier.she catches as many rats as the terrier.a few experienced ratting men have been suprised at how good she is.
she is now five years old though and wont last forever,regular work takes its toll on a lurcher.

im obsessed with hunting,i like my dogs to try their hardest at whatever task is in front of them.

thanks for the welcome.

mcelkek

Great pictures and dogs DP.

Keith.

BritAnnie

Obviously not a lot can be done with the rats - just glad to get rid of them. But what do you do with the rabbits? Too many for you to eat yourselves - do you fed the dogs with them?

durham pointer

my dogs are fed almost completely on rabbits,its a brilliant food i find.
if i feed a high protein food to my lurcher she is hard to control but fed rabbits she is ok.not as well behaved as a collie cross maybe but not too bad.
i give away some to lads who have dogs and ferrets but dont catch many rabbits.

when the pups are grown ill have three big dogs and a terrier plus ferrets which will eat around 1200 rabbits in a year. Shocked

BritAnnie

Now that is really earning their keep! I like it! Great sport for you, good fun and work for the dogs, and keeping vermin under control into the bargain. Well done. I've been told they use mainly Wiries (GWP) to control feral cats in australia?
BA

Helen

Nice looking dogs and sounds like good sport.

Helen

windem bang

Who needs a gun with those dogs around ? Laughing

I used to do a bit of rabbit control work with my Brittany, she pointed them , I shot them right off the end of her nose with an air- rifle as they sat there. It wasn't very sporting but it saved a fortune on shotgun cartridges and it showed you pretty clearly if your dog was steady or not Exclamation

Good luck with the pup.

Bill T.

countrygirl

what a lovely puppy Very Happy

I always find it very interesting to find out what other people do with their dogs esp if it something a bit 'different'

Caz

BenB

fnaar fnaar.

durham pointer

i see my share of rabbits being caught by lurchers but they arent all caught by my own dogs.
i also shoot rats and rabbits.

hopefully ill see a few gwps working next season on the moors.ill catch the keepers to see what they can show me.im looking forward to learning something new.

Rhimad

Welcome to the forum, Great pics and Dogs

We have 7 GWP's, we work them on Game and Deer.

durham pointer

a few more pics.

countrygirl

DP,

as your do different sort of work than we do with dogs, whats your opinion tail wise?

One argument that is put forward is that a dog needs its tail for balance as yours are required to turn fast what do you think?

And Ben what does that mean is it some sort of coursers secret code Very Happy

Caz

durham pointer

a lurcher needs a tail,its not an issue with a pure pointer but my pup has a full tail.
when i first contacted the breeder he said that he wasnt docking them as himself and others felt that a full tail could be seen in the deep cover better than a docked tail.i know that with my lurchers sometimes only the tip of its tail can be seen sticking out the side of reeds etc.sometimes i dont know where my dogs are but they soon show themselves as they will try and catch the quarry when they feel they are in the right position,i dont tell them when to flush.i can only imagine how hard it could be with a pointer that goes on point and stays there untill found.

ive worked terriers both as rat/bushing dogs and earthdogs for 15 years and dont believe tails get damaged regularly.my lurcher as can be seen in the pics is very "pointerish" and dosent damage her tail.she works as much bramble and other heavy cover as most dogs.

i wouldnt want an undocked terrier but must admit that its a cosmetic thing rather than a work issue.

does anbody else have undocked pointers?

Danielle Mason

My 6 month old wire has a tail.

BritAnnie

I suppose it's possibly a cosmetic thing with me too but I just don't like seeing Brittanys with tails - so far anyway, as I haven't seen any with good tail carriage. I think it changes the whole look of our breed, so I am glad I have two natural bobtails, and hopefully can breed some more.
BA

durham pointer

if it was upto me breeders would still be able to dock their puppies tails themselves.i dont like the docking laws even if i dont think its always important to dock a working dogs tail.

countrygirl

Thanks for the answer very interesting both of my wires are docked and I wouldent want an undocked one but thats becasue I like the look, very few gwp/gsp are about at the moment undocked but I am sure this number will increse in time as the new law takes hold and people find it harder to get their litters docked and dont even start me on the stupid law regarding showing docked dogs. Twisted Evil

Caz

durham pointer

the laws will affect terriers aswell,mind my pup was left undocked because the lads who were involved in breeding the litter wanted them undocked.it had nothing to do with the docking laws. Wink

BritAnnie

Got any pics of your terrier showing what his/her tail is like?

durham pointer

all my terriers have been docked,the new gwp pup is the only undocked dog ive ever owned which is usually docked.
sorry for the confusion,i only mentioned terriers because i see that some owners are not docking litters now
i kept plummer terriers for a decade and ive seen a few undocked pups on other forums lately.

BritAnnie

Plummer? Don't know them, but on googling I see they are another composite breed. http://www.plummerterrier.com/dogbox/portal.php?page=2

I know some of these terriers aren't recognised by the KC but I do like the Patterdales. I met them first in 1983 on the Dunalastair Estate and just loved them.
BA

durham pointer

the plummer is no longer the working type it once was.there might be a few people hunting rats with them but most owners care more about the showing side and the desire to gain kc recognition.i wouldnt know where to get a working bred plummer terrier pup these days.

the terriers in my pics are half cross plummer/nuttall(patterdale) terriers.

BritAnnie

I didn't think they really looked like terriers on that website - more like lurchers. And if the KC is refusing to register the Lurcher as a breed I see little hope for teh Plummer. The KC are quite protective of the registered breeds as they are, so aren't keen on crossbreeds until they breed true to type. I think the criteria is 4 generations but I'm not sure. Anybody know?
BA

durham pointer

i could go on and on about the plummer because i spent so long working them to rat,rabbit and fox.
however most breeders care more about looks now rather than work.

BritAnnie

It's a pity Dr Plummer died young as he might have managed to get them established without the breed becoming show only. Found some pictures - but how did the first three on there become Supreme Champions - and what of?
http://www.plummerterrierassociation.org/STUD.htm

durham pointer

I never had registered terriers or joined the various clubs so i had no interest in the showing side.i imagine those dogs became champions by winning big game fair shows like the midland.it is taken very seriously. Rolling Eyes

im still very bitter over whats happened to the plummer terrier type.

countrygirl

I too like the lakeland. I would imagin as dp has said that the awards were got at terrier and lurchers shows, In this aera they are normally held in conjunction with the local hunt exemption(still cant get used to calling them companion) shows and yes they do take it very serious Shocked

Caz

Bareve

Hello

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing the photos - very interesting to hear what you do with your dogs. I noticed the full tail on your GWP mix so was interested to read your reply as I feel there will be more tails left on than was originally thought.

When my BIL showed his working Border Terriers around all the Terrier shows there were some lovely quality dogs shown although not necessarily "show" dogs. The owners were also very competitive!

windem bang

I read every one of Plummers books and some of his articles too. I doubt very much if a man like him would have wanted any dog he'd bred recognized and registered by the K.C. He cared only for how well his terriers could kill rats. If I read his books correctly , this man discarded his first breeding line because a genetic fault began occuring . He did a fair old bit of inbreeding and he produced some terrific dogs like Vampire for example.

I still have some of his books the rest were from the library. His lurchers were pretty good too, he tried several crosses. I felt he was a bit of a chip on the shoulder man and he was certainly a bit of a loner. You'd have to be to move house up into the wilds of Caithness and try to earn a living from the land and the sea up there !

The last I heard of him he was being challenged by someone from England to run Phaedra his lurcher against some English dog. He was also trying to breed a decent line of white German Shepherds, I've no idea how that went !

Bill T.

durham pointer

brian plummer towards the end of his life became obsessed with gaining kc recognition,to get his name immortalized.

i wont slag off the dead so ill leave it at that.

windem bang

I didn't know that and I'm sorry to hear it - I'm not much of a dog show lover ! Laughing

Bill T.

durham pointer

last day of the season.ill still get out on some places but today was the last time on the moor so that the birds can breed in peace.
the dogs had to work hard to find rabbits as the snow was down and scent was bad.

sashalgwps

It looks like they worked well then. Quite a few rabbits there Very Happy

Where will they be worked now you aren't on the moor?

Alex

durham pointer

theres always the grass fields and local areas where i can go bushing.ratting is done all year round aswell.
once the lambs are born we can go onto those dales aswell.

plenty to do,its only 16 weeks or so untill it all starts up again properly.

Helen

That's the beauty of lurchers - you aren't as restricted as you are when working on game. The grouse here are sitting incredibly tight so it's no dogs on the moor until July now.

Helen

sashalgwps

josie

Hi - I don't know anything about this rabbit/rat catching stuff. How do you get the animal off the dog once it has caught it - they don't retrieve, do they? Or do your GWP X s kill and then retrieve? I mean, do the dogs, esp the terriers, naturally want to eat it and what happens once it has caught the animal? (Sorry if this is such an ignoramus question but all my effort goes on not letting them chase Laughing

)

durham pointer

hi josie.
i like all my dogs to bring their catches to me,otherwise when bushing your terriers will be catching stuff and youll never know about it.the lurcher usually retrieves her rabbits to hand although i must admit that lately the retrieves havent been as good.this can happen when a lurcher has worked hard and is tired.they can also kill the rabbit when tired.

my dogs eat rabbit but not when we are out hunting them.rats are killed and dropped,they soon learn what you want retrieving and what you dont.

its not too hard to get a lurcher to learn that gamebirds are not to be taken.

josie

Sounds interesting!

lou

Welcome durham pointer

its interesting to hear about the work you do with your dogs - and what lovely looking lurchers GWPs make!
I saw a lurcher demo at a local show last year and I was surprised that they are meant to catch and deliver to hand - i had no idea before.

are you from the Durham area then? im Wear Valley.

Louise

durham pointer

i live in co.durham.

my lurchers arent aswell trained as those that others have and especially those that you can see on the lurcher display teams.
lurchers are very versatile dogs,they can be trained to do most things.

we like the gwp cross because of the land we hunt over and the general toughness of the cross.

thanks for the interest.