Naive question

cressy · Naive question

I had to take Chase, Freddy and Brice out with me when beating with Mugi yesterday (only to leave them in the car not to try and work 4 dogs btw) as my neighbour had damaged the party fence. While I was exercising them I was asked why I wasn't taking Chase out on the shoot and although I know taking him out at this stage will blow his ickle brain I also have misgivings about him on the beating line regardless.

So I am going to ask my question regardless of how stupid it will make me seem Laughing

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How do people who beat with HPR's reconcile the fact that they are more or less expecting their dog to move through point to flush in an instant and still be able to hold a point if and when they are training for competition?

The shoot I am working on for example had upwards of 2000 pheasants on the drive in front of us today. With Mugi, who it really doesn't matter with as he will never compete at his grand age I let him work more or less as a spaniel while the line is moving forward but when we are stationary I will allow him to hold point for as long as possible and praise him then allow him to move to flush as we are moved on (even if he is flushing the bird away from the guns). He gets verbal praise while on point and some gentle stroking and a 'Good Dog, Gone Away' when he flushes.

I have not really decided where I will go with Chase, he is such a 'difficult' pup but at the same time I do not want to ruin any chance of competing with him before I have started so I welcome your comments.

windem bang

Sue, I.M.O. you should not work Chase in the beating line, not this year anyway. I think he would gather such a head of steam that he would not only cause problems on the shoot he might also be very difficult to get back under control - and not just on the day of the shoot!
He would get too many wild flushes in places where you can do little about it. Other dogs would draw him off towards them and trouble would start. He'd get too many points too without really having to hunt for them and other dogs could spoil those points.

Brittanies tend to be nutty enough without exposing them while very young to a beating line where lots of birds are hiding and running all over the place. Some dogs and some breeds are calm enough to take into a beating line while young. I don't think a Brit of Chases' age and breeding comes under that category!

I wouldn't put Buck into a beating line and his breed is a slightly calmer one and he's a couple of months older. Give Chase till next year and get the things you need well installed, I think you will be glad you did.

Best of luck if you go ahead with taking him beating.

Bill T.

josie

WB, I'm not sure that was Sue's question though! Laughing

Sue, I would only beat with mine on a shoot where they could hold their points until I got to them and told them to flush. That probably means a shoot with fewer dogs, or a shoot where I have a bigger patch of ground to quarter on the end of a line, or a shoot which understands HPRs and tries to provide a bigger area. I wouldn't beat right alongside a dozen spaniels.

HTH.

guy

Although Topaz and I regularly go beating - he is never allowed to hunt. I keep him off lead a much a possible and use the time to really ensure control, sit to flush when birds are popping by the dozen within a few feet etc. Last time was the first I allowed him to stay off lead through maize.

Now i just need to make him understand that having a fence between me and him does not mean all bets are off and he is allowed to do his own thing Smile

windem bang

Hi Josie, you're right! I think I was just so horrified by the idea of Chase in the average beating line that I forgot the original question! Embarassed

I have worked a Brit in a beating line, (Mugi s' gt. granny) I didn't find her too hard to control but the same could not be said for the other beaters and their dogs. Many points were spoiled one way or another and I really don't think this work added anything worthwhile to her education. I was in a different position from Sue however, at that time I had ground of my own to hunt and shoot over. I could get most of the practice I needed for trials there. Beating and the problems it can bring were just not needed to give her practice at hunting, pointing etc.

I think Sue is in much the same position as I am now. She has a dog she feels needs hunting, pointing experience. I feel it would be better if Chase and Sue joined a small rough shooting syndicate perhaps as a non shooting "half-gun" she could then ask that the other dogs were either well controlled or kept on a lead while Chase works. This is what I have done with Buck to give him some experience. He hunts alone and because there isn't a bird behind every turnip or in every bush he has to really run to find game. Often nothing is found but he is still gaining hunting experience while men walk along with guns.

If he does get a point I can watch him and say when the bird flies off whether it should be shot at or just given a 12 bore salute. I can also decide if he is to retrieve it or leave it for another dog to get. Buck can then get another dogs retrieve later in the day. This helps keep a young dog steady rather than have it think it must complete the sequence - hunt -point - retrieve can very quickly become hunt-point- run in.

As you will have gathered I'm not in favour of taking an H.P.R. into a beating line if experience can be gained in other ways. The average Brittany is a headcase ! Chase is a bit more than just "average!" I would have to be absolutely desperate for gamework before I'd take him into a beating line. Shocked

I still haven't answered the question I suppose but other forum members probably have a great deal more H.P.R. beating line experience than I have. Smile

Bill T.

josie

I agree Bill. I'm lucky in that we have access to public land which is right next to a big shoot. So a lot of birds get flushed onto this land and it's great to practise hunting on. So we don't need beating for practice either. Just this morning Slate pointed a phessie. Unfortunately it sat tight and when told to flush, she just ended up with it in her mouth Shocked

Adam dispatched it, as he said he was afraid it would die of shock or something if he released it LOL! But before we found this land, we did have trouble finding ground with game on it and we did think about beating, although never got round to it. Of course we can't shoot on this land so have to get the other half of the thing (picking up) on a shoot.

With Grey I'm just not introducing her to game until she is 150% obedient without game to whistle sits etc. I find a corner of the land, walk it out with her on long line to make sure there's no game there, then practice recalls, whistle sits, heelwork and retrieving. When I feel that she's really really focussed on me, only then will I introduce more distractions, and then it will be with the bolting rabbit, controlled flushes with bird release etc etc. I don't even do any spring pointing tests because I don't want her or Slate to chase anything, ever, even once. I'd do them with Slate now because she's rock steady, but they are always so far north...! Now I am waffling and I should be packing to go to Jersey for Xmas so I am off...!

cressy

Ghilliegumdrop

Well with Merlin I took him to our last shoot and he was kept on the lead for the first beat then put back into the car. He took no notice of the shooting nor the birds falling around....he was much more interested in humping one of the Labs. It did prove that he wasn't gunshy though Rolling Eyes

cressy

Jan, thankfully I know Chase isn't gunshy as he was shotover with a starting pistol while eating, had trays banged around him etc when he was ickle. Since then he has been training with me while my friend fired his shotgun in the adjacent field, he showed mild interest but not enough to break his down stay or his focus on me.

The third drive yesterday (we only managed 4 drives as the weather was awful) we were moving around 2000 pheasants. With that number of birds I think the game scent etc would just blow his brain and be way too stimulating. He already understands the correlation of scent and bird in a basic way and when on game he is forgetting the other dogs around. Mind you all he wants to do is play if he has to work hard to find his bird so that is what I am wanting to develop.