josie
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responding to everyone's whistles...I have a question to do with working my Weimy when other people are working their dogs - she tries to respond to everyone's whistle, not just mine - she sits if someone else whistles a sit, for eg.   I haven't taken her on a shoot yet, but this is one thing I'm worried about for when I do....
On the one hand, I don't want to discourage this because I think it's great that she is so responsive and doesn't think but just reacts, but I do (at the moment) reward her every time she sits, especially in a distracting place, and I don't want her to be sitting all the time to other people's whistles and me rewarding her, because we won't get much hunting done, she'll be sitting every 2 seconds! The only thing I can think of is using another whistle to what everyone else uses (I have a European style HPR whistle but am not using it yet - I am a bit scared to use it because one end of it sounds like the football whistle which ends drives and I don't want to end a drive with my dog whistle!!!!) - at the moment I use a 210.5, but everyone uses that - how do I get round this, anyone? 
Someone said that she will learn "my" whistle and the way that I whistle and know it above everyone else's, is that true
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Helen
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I use a 210.5 and have never had any problems on shoots with my springers. They respond to my whistle but ignore others, even though they have the same type of whistle.
Helen
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Alkemist
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Maybe try setting up a training session - 2 peeps, same whistle, and only treat when she sits to your whistle - she's quick, so she should learn very quickly what to do? Or maybe even go as far as treating her for not responding to everyone elses whisle - this is still positive reinforcement so shouldn't undo her training?
Nina
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Allyson
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Although my dogs acknowledge other whistles they generally do not react to them as of course they tend to look at me for a bit of a clue.
I think it is you that has inadvertently trained your dog to react to everyone else's whistles by reinforcing her when she does! 
Perhaps it would be a good idea if you are using OP training to ignore anything that is not on cue and only reinforce behaviours that are on cue, your cue that is? In other words at the moment you are reinforcing her just for the behaviour but it is not really on your cue is it?
Dogs do get to know "their" whistle but they also use either their direct or peripheral vision for your "body" language etc IME. I strongly suspect that no matter how well trained the dog, once it was trained to the whistle, if you tried to control it just by noise from a remote speaker that the behaviour would fall apart......... I might be wrong.
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Claire
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I do firmly believe that the dog gets to know the sound of "your" whistle. Even I can hear a slight difference from when I blow my whistle to when Gary blow's his and yet we are using the same whistle.
I've never had a problem with Harris reacting to other people's whistles when on a shoot, like Allyson says, he does look up to see who is whistling and why but he doesn't respond to it in any way. But I suspect this is because he is always looking to me or Gary for direction and he has only ever been praised when he does what we want and not what he thinks everyone else wants.
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josie
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Hi - Allyson I guess you are right that I have encouraged her to respond to other people's whistles, by reinforcing her when she does.
But I think that I reinforced her because I wasn't sure if she could tell the difference between my whistle and other people's. I didn't want to weaken the cue by not following it with reinforcement, repeatedly, if she really did think other people's were mine.
I think if she had looked at the person who blew the whistle, or acknowledged in some way that she knew it wasn't me blowing it, then I wouldn't have reinforced her, because I would have felt that she had clearly seen and heard it wasn't me.
But when she responds to other people's whistles, she just instantly runs to me or sits and looks at me and she gives no sign that she is aware the whistle came from anywhere else, so I'm worried that she really does think it was me, especially as I walk around with my whistle in my mouth. And if I ignore her when she does this and don't reinforce so many whistles which she really thinks are me, then I am weakening the whistle cues.
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gunston
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I Have Used Voice Command,Training All my Hunting Dogs.My Dogs Know My/Our Voices,No Whistles For My Dogs !!
Try It ,It Works Very Very Well.Better on Dogs than a Man ! For that One would probably Need a Whistle,if One Has Nothing else.
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DesO'Neile
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There is no such thing as over responsiveness to whistles, in my book. When I have made a faux pas and turned my dog off a bird for years I have been told, "Ah! You shouldn't be able to take your dog off a scent." Bollocks! Somebody who can’t do such a thing is only demonstrating that they haven't got full control of their dog. Dogs are intelligent animals but in this situation KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid. If you blow a whistle the dog must respond, if you don't blow a whistle in can carry on on its lawful occasions.
I would love to have all my dogs so responsive to whistles, anybody’s whistle, because the remedy is so simple. If you didn’t want the dog to stop just send it on. Yes there will be times when your dog may not respond to you first time, due to other people giving commands but that is to be expected. I would also rather my dog disobeyed me a few times in a day because of sheer enthusiasm than respond to every peep of the whistle because it was constantly either looking at me in expectation of a treat of even thinking of a treat.
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johnhod
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Get on a shoot and my dog ignores everyone's whistles including mine 
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Helen
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I agree with you when working on the grouse but I would rather have my spaniels respond all the time to my whistle. I find them a lot easier to work when they are focused on me, whereas on the grouse, I am looking for an independent sort who doesn't bugger off, which we seem to have got with our grouse dogs.
I am certainly a lot more strict with the dogs used for shooting.
Helen
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josie
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You must have a v loud voice, gunston, I don't think I could yell SIT for the dog to hear it a field away!
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Lisa
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This is an interesting point you have made Josie! At the mo I have trouble to him listening to just my whistle so not even thought about other people's!! I have noticed that different people peep different ways to their dog so is this what you mean about the dog knowing 'your' whistle?
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josie
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Yes, although it was, uh, about 2 yrs ago that this thread started
Since getting Grey (Slovak) we started to use the 212 with her, and Slate picked that up, so we trained her to that and have faded out the 210.5 (although she still responds to that as well). So both are on the 212 now and I've found this helps because much fewer people use 212s on shoots than 210-211s, so I'm having this problem a lot less.
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Lisa
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Gosh yes so it is!! I'm so sorry I never even looked at the date   Typical me!! 
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Greyghost
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Time flies when you're having fun. For a moment there I thought Allyson had joined us again
Similar topic but different - I had my friend's dog out the other day a cocker x and decided to teach her the sit whistle. She picked it up quite quickly but every time I peeped Holly sat, even if she was behind me somewhere, so I kind of missed it at first. Was so funny but nice in a way.....
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Helen S
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I did come across this problem once at a trial. After negotiating a previous retrieve with quite a bit of handling, Liesel was on her way out to a marked retrieve at top speed when someone in a different class in a neighbouring field blew a 210.5 like mine. Liesel stopped and sat. All I could do was to send her "Back" as if I had blown it myself and she carried on - a bit frustrating but I just decided that she hadn't done anything really wrong and I had to take it in my stride and not distress her by not encouraging her to continue.
The other circumstance which HAS affected my training is my forgetting to get her to sit to shot whilst out duck shooting with several people. This has weakened her sit to shot although she normally looks to where the shot has come from and this normally involves her stopping. I will have to get on with reinforcing the sit next time we are out.
Helen S
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windem bang
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I don't suppose it will work but I have been experimenting with whistles. I used to make my own whistles and have a fairly good idea of how to change pitch , tone etc. I have been cutting open standard whistles and changing them inside then sticking them back together. I've done 5 so far , its costing a small fortune !  I've got one I really like out of the five - it was an acme 210 - Gawd knows what it is now , it has a sound all of its own, but I could repeat what I've done with another 210 and get the same sound. I'm using this whistle on a spaniel after one of those damned silent whistles that I'd been using, unscrewed itself and was lost during a training session.
Bill T.
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Helen S
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I'm sure we have discussed this before somewhere but what are you doing now Bill with two dogs?
I see Josie uses the same whistle for both dogs but what if you have them both out on retrieves and want to stop one but not the other? Or do you always work them alternately?
Helen S
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josie
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I've yet to encounter that problem If I did have them both out, I'd probably work them alternately - I often have one sitting at my side while I train the other now for retrieves. On the other hand, for the hunting side of things, it is good to have them both responding to one whistle - bird goes up, whistle, both dogs sit. Or I recall and both dogs come. I couldn't blow 2 at once there.
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Helen S
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Aaaah of course Josie. Now I see, it makes sense that you will more often have occasion to use two dogs hunting together but probably only need one retrieving at a time.
Helen S
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Helen
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When I train the dogs, I do the basics in the field next to the kennels. When I'm doing whistle work with them, I'm assuming that the dogs in the kennel aren't sitting. Is this a problem? Should I be training whistle work away from the kennels, where they can't hear or will they realise they don't need to listen while I'm training another dog. Whenever I am out with more than one dog, if I blow the whistle, I do expect them to listen.
Helen
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windem bang
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The hunting of two dogs using just the one whistle is not so likely for me. The spaniel would hunt the close covery bits the G.S.P. the more open spaces. The spaniel would work to the modified 210 the G.S.P. to the modified 211 1/2 .
That was my plan but I don't think it will work - I forget to take the correct whistle and use pretty much anything half the time ! So we're back nearly full circle - it's down to an individual persons way of tooting a whistle.
My dogs have their own ideas too, my spaniel likes G.S.P. ranges and my G.S.P. is a bit partial to cover. I have an unwanted overlap.
Bill T.
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josie
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Helen, I don't think that's a problem because the cue for the dog to sit isn't just the whistle. I mean, the cue would be whistle+being off lead (for some dogs)+being in hunting terrain (not in kennel) etc. I mean, the cue is lots of different environmental factors. So it looks like your dogs have learnt that the whistle doesn't apply in the kennel, which is probably fine - because otherwise you are going to have to go and release all the dogs in the kennel from their sits or risk them learning they can get up when they like!
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Lisa
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Two dogs on one whistle I am struggling with one dog and a whistle!!
I have so much to learn 
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Pitbull
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I don't think its so much of the whistle mine listens to but the gargling of the slavers that go through the whistle. 211.5 slavered.
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Helen
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lol. I quite often have to wash my whistle out! I also bite down on it so it soon changes shape.
Helen
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BritAnnie
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| Quote: | | I also bite down on it |
Just don't bite too hard - you might need your teeth crowned like me
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Helen S
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It has often crossed my mind that I could swallow my whistle if I stumbled badly! This is usually enough to make me take it out of my mouth and hold it....
Helen S
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windem bang
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I'm safe enough - Buck ate my teef 
Bill T.
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munstyman
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Helens wrote:
| Quote: | | It has often crossed my mind that I could swallow my whistle if I stumbled badly! This is usually enough to make me take it out of my mouth and hold it.... |
You need a lagapus lanyard then then you could pull it back out
Peter
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Helen S
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Got one!
Helen S
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