| Archive for workinghprs.myfastforum.org Chat forum for owners of working HPR and Versatile gundog breeds. |
| josie |
our almost-first year with a SlovakRight, as Grey is now nearly 11 mnths old (how time flies etc), and as the Slovak is quite a new breed, I thought I'd just waffle away a bit about what it's been like with her over this year and compare her to Slate a bit. Now, I don't want to distress either Weim owners or Slovak owners with this, so these are only my opinions!Well, firstly, she is completely completely different to a Weim. So if someone is looking for a Weim with rough hair - they'll be very disappointed (in all but appearances) with a Slovak. I mean from things like vocalisation, the ways she moves, her mannerisms and the way she holds herself right through to working ability and puppyhood. I don't know much about GWPs, but from the little I've seen of them at working tests and events, I would say she is much more like a grey GWP than a Weim. As a puppy she was much, much, much easier to live with than Slate (and, from other's stories, most Weim pups!). There was just no problem with separation anxiety, crate training was easy, night times were much simpler and so on. The only thing which was harder was toilet training, in terms of pees. She never did a poo inside (which Slate did) but she took a bit longer with the pees than Slate did. But it was a much, much easier puppyhood. She is much more vocal than Slate and most Weims I've met. This goes for whining (sigh) through to barking when excited and playing. Slate hardly makes a squeak except when we're arriving at an event. Grey is much noisier. She is also impetuous, man, is she impetuous. She can be a bit annoying round the house, actually! Slate has the Weim aloofness, especially to strangers or people wanting to put their hands all over her head and do full-on head patting. Grey laps this up and is a bit cat-like in her love of affection like this. She has much more hunting drive and ability than Slate does - and Slate can run pretty well. But Grey just loves to be running for the sake of it, which is something I don't see in Slate - if the wind isn't right, then Slate will put her head down and ground-scent. Grey does this much less. She also has a natural interest in scent and I can see her using her nose a lot more readily than Slate, honing in on scent cones etc. Grey also likes to bring me half dead rabbits and carcasses and disgusting things she has found on walks, whereas Slate has never done that - they are beneath her and she is far superior to decomposing things. On the other hand, Grey is a much worse retriever than Slate is. Slate is a bit of a retriever-holic. Grey's retrieve is still not absolutely reliable and we're still working on it. She hasn't experienced game yet, retrieving or hunting, but she will still get distracted on a retrieve to check out a scent, either on the way out or way back. I'm sure I can get a solid basic retrieve ok, but I'm not sure it's going to be possible to finesse things quite as much as I have with Slate - like multiple retrieves to piles, like wagon wheel drills, lining drills, complex directions and so on - all this is going to be much harder (if possible at all) because she isn't as keen on retrieving. This is related to the fact that she is also not that keen on working for food - Slate is a PIG and loves to work for food. Grey, even if I skip her breakfast and halve her dinner the night before and use the most interesting treats, just doesn't respond in the same way. Toys work for a few repetitions, but really she just loves SCENT. Having said that, her basic obedience (sit, heel, sit at a distance, recall) is good. She is very submissive to other dogs and to Slate (who is boss). They get on well together and often play together, although Slate tires of this much faster than Grey. She has no guarding ability that I've seen - Slate will bark if someone is outside the house or if she is worried by a strange noise. Grey never does and I've seen no aggression of any sort from her (unlike Slate, who can tell strange dogs to F off), Grey has a sweet personality. As a HPR, Grey is a much better option than Slate. However, in terms of a personal bond, I have much more of a bond with Slate than with Grey. This could be partly because Slate is the older one and "first", but I also think that Weims develop a particularly intense bond with their owners and I don't see the same quality in Grey. Leaving aside working stuff, I prefer the Weim. As a working dog, I'd pick the Slovak. Obviously these are huge generalisations but there we go. Anyway, there are some rambly thoughts comparing them! |
||||
| Helen S |
Perhaps some of the differences you describe Jo, such as Grey's easier puppyhood, could be because Slate was an only dog (am I correct here?) and Grey has had the advantage of a lead from Slate as well as what you have taught her to do? As far as your bond is concerned, she is having to share you with Slate. This will always be a different relationship to the one you have developed with Slate.
I have mentioned a few times that Grey sounds similar in a lot of ways to Liesel (GWP), who has a strong hunt drive and who you will remember I had to insist on her retrieving for a while. Our bond has become stronger and stronger as training has progressed; to start with it is a lot of obedience and discipline and being onto them to prevent bad habits forming, but once this is instilled then you can trust them more and let them have more fun. These dogs with a strong hunting drive love it when you start to show them game, Grey will start to look to you and pay you more attention as she realises that you are the one who helps her and directs her to find game. I guess what I am trying to say is:- 1. Remember she is not Slate and your relationship will develop differently. If hunting is what motivates her, when you take her hunting she will become much more bonded to you. 2. She is only a year old and the teenage months are the hardest, but you have done it before - you can do it again. 3. Don't worry! - this time next year you will look back and see how far you have both come. Good luck with her and keep us posted. Helen S |
||||
| Mike |
Thanks for that Jo was wondering how you were finding things 
|
||||
| josie |
I forgot to say - she is, physically, a really nice looking Slovak with (as far as I can tell) an ideal coat. If anyone wants any tips on that count, she was the least hairiest in the litter at 6 wks! She is quite small for the breed too, only slightly larger than Slate, who is a small Weim. Oh well, I like small dogs! | ||||
| Bareve |
That was lovely to read about the differences. I've been out a few times this season with Lisa's bitch and that was what she kept saying that she was more like a GWP than a Weimar. I have to say from my experience the GWP's can be quite sloppy with regards to retrieving especially if they are very good hunting dogs. So don't give up on the retrieving side as it will just make the void even bigger. I've also done the reverse in training inso much of asked for a retrieve first off and rewarded it with hunting - no retrieve = no hunting. It only took him one day before he complied so he went hunting. 
As for her coat - that would be the way we pick GWP puppies  Look for a small beard and a close body coat and the coat will be excellent - little hairy faces and fluffy coats will give you fluffy coats as an adult
|
||||
| tashap |
a year has gone by very fast last time I saw you all together she was in your lap
|
||||
| Helen S |
Yes, how about a picture of her now Jo?
Helen S |
||||
| Helen |
Thanks for the Jo. Interesting reading. Echo what Helen says, any pics?
Helen |
||||
| josie |
Ok, I will take my camera out with me this morning and get some pics of her outside - I don't seem to have any recent ones! That is v interesting about the GWP similarities Sharon!
She is 11 mnths and still no first season yet... Slate is in season at the moment and I thought it might bring Grey in too, but nope. Perhaps she is going to hold off and stay a puppy for longer because Slate is top dog. |
||||
| josie |
Here are some photos, I'm afraid she's looking a bit bedraggled and needs stripping!:
|
||||
| windem bang |
There's a bit of Scottish Deerhound in there somewhere !
Bill T. |
||||
| Ghilliegumdrop |
Lurcher 
|
||||
| josie |
I knew I shouldn't have let Slate play with Sue's Brice! | ||||
| Ghilliegumdrop |
Ahh, that's what has happened...I thought Brice had a goofy look on his face 
|
||||
| Helen S |
What a lovely lanky teenager you have! It's difficult to get scale but it looks like she'll be quite a big dog when she fills out.
Helen S |
||||
| Helen |
She's gorgeous!
Helen |
||||
| weimardan |
Nice pics Josie.
I found your post on your experiences with Grey very interesting. In many ways you could also be talking about Fuzy, but there are a few differences. Fuzy is motivated by food and will do anything for it. At first I thought this was great and used food in training. I had fabulous attention and great heel work. However it is not so good on a day to day basis. He is a very greedy dog and will steal food at any opportunity. I am having difficulty weaning him off food rewards in training and still keep his attention. He is fine with the agility and nose work in working trials, as he enjoys these activities, but in the heel work section he gradually loses concentration as the smells in the field take over his brain  I have been seen walking the course on my own while he visits a nice smell, several yards away  
very embarrassing! He is very good on ground scent, but that could be due to training him for trials, but he does wind scent at other times. In the stays he will not lay flat because he wants his head up so he can spend the 10 mins sniffing the air. On walks he naturally hunts on the wind, but not always for game. The other day he stopped dead turned 90 degrees and took off –jumping a ditch, crossing a field and another broad ditch to say hello to a dog he had smelt on the wind  Fortunately the owner and his dog were friendly.
Any training tips to improve his recall when he is distracted/focused on something else would be welcome. |
||||
| josie |
I just drill the recall over and over, always for something incredibly tasty. If she blows me off and is smelling something, I don't call again, just creep up on her as quickly and quietly as I can, grab her and put her on the lead!!! Then she goes on the boring lead and watches Slate running around and having fun. And if she's just blown me off, then I will immediately lower the criteria, calling her back from very nearby or when not distracted and just build it up again. I try to make a walk be almost a continuous session of recalls and short periods of free running. (Some might say this is bad for encouraging range and hunting ability, but a good recall is more useful to me than a dog which ranges widely, as they will always be my pets foremost and the working stuff is a hobby and for their enjoyment. Others might have different priorities.)
Grey was much less interested in food rewards through her puppyhood, but now she is older, she is very interested and motivated by food. Kind of weird. |
||||
| weimardan |
Thanks Josie.
I do do recalls on walks and reward, but perhaps I need to look at what I am using as a reward. |
||||
| freelens |
Hi Josie,
My Slovak Tara is much more one dogs than Hima the weim. She always runs straight to them without any hesitation, just for playing. Sometimes when it goes wrong and the other dog is a acting aggressive my weim comes in and will defend her. Because we don't like this behavior, I will recall Tara and run off in the opposite direction and try to hide. She gets uncertain and is coming after me and of course is getting a treat, Dutch cheese works fine
About the fur stripping of a Slovak, are you doing it yourself? When you compare the fur with other rough or wire-haired pointers I notice that Tara’s fur is much softer and not as thick. By the way, it's great to read about your experience with Grey, the sister of Tara, it's really similar. |
||||
| josie |
Hi - I have this great coat-stripping tool we got from the US. It's called a "Furminator"! It looks like this: http://www.furminator.com/ I have the Large one. It is excellent and we get so much hair out - watch the videos on that website, they are unbelievable.
By the way, here is a photo of the litter at 6.5 wks - your Tara must be one of them: 
|
||||
| weima |
Have you used the furminator in Slate too? | ||||
| josie |
No, Weim fur is too short, I think - we tried but didn't get much off and I think a brush is better. (Actually to tell the truth, we don't groom Slate at all!) | ||||
| freelens |
Tara playing 16th of May '07 
04th of June '07 Grey part of the gang? Tara’s was the darkest of the litter, I'm not sure which collar she was, left it at Nicholas. The Furminator website says it is mostly for the undercoat, by my knowledge you first have to hand pluck (trim) the old hair from the upper coat. After some weeks you can then take out some wool with the Furminator. See also some advice on: http://forum.versatiledogs.com/vi...=cfb9af79e6cb1cf82bce998e61242815 Please correct me when I’m wrong. |
||||
| josie |
Ahhh, v cute! No, Grey wasn't there on 4th June - we picked her up a few days earlier at the end of May! (She has the purple collar and is in the middle of the first photo of sleeping puppies!) She was the smallest in the litter and she's still small for the breed (only slightly bigger than our small Weim!).
No idea about the Furminator thing, I guess the best people to ask would be the GWP owners about how to deal with wire coats...? |
||||
| freelens |
This is the result of hand plucking Tara. There's still enough coat but she looks a bit "naked" 
Pimp your Slovak |
||||
| josie |
Wow, she looks almost like a Weim!!
Grey looks much more like the first photo at the moment!!!! |
||||
| lagopuslagopus |
I assumed that was what they were supposed to look like. |
||||
| weima |
I thought so too 
|
||||
| BenB |
oh dear - i think i need one of these. God damn it! My dog wish list is gettting out of hand now. | ||||
| josie |
You can have Grey.
|
||||
| BenB |
Are you even vaguely at all serious?? | ||||
| freelens |
My opinion is that the only thing a Slovak and Weimaraner share is the color grey. Now Tara is stripped you can see that her appearance and build is far more GWP.
Like Josie already wrote the Slovak is in her behavior so much different from the Weimaraner. When people expect to get a “rough haired Weimaraner” they probably will be disappointed if they compare them. When I choose for a Slovakian Rough Haired Pointer I wanted a more versatile hunting dog and of course we love the color grey
|
||||
| freelens |
There are still some Slovak puppies for sale at "huntersgreydelight.nl" here in the Netherlands... |
||||
| josie |
No, of course I'm not serious, even though she is an obnoxious, impetuous, over-confident pain in the arse!!!!!!
|
||||
| BenB |
matches the GWP perfectly then - that's settled!
|
||||
| BenB |
forgive my stupidity but I can't translate it! | ||||
| tashap |
you could also contact the WCGB they have assisted with a couple of rescues and might be able to help if another one comes up for rehoming. | ||||
| weimardan |
why strip a Slovak?
The hairy unkempt look is one of their appealing features. I prefer just running a brush over my boy |
||||
| tashap |
they remind me of a grandad or a granny I don't know why but they have that look of I'm old grey and unkept but with a little glint in their eye that hides a great sense of humour and a lust for life... you know the ones who have a stick but would use it to trip you up with for a giggle.
Jo would you say now if you had the choice again of getting a Weimaraner or a SRP would you go straight for the SRP??? |
||||
| josie |
Hmm, I don't know, that's a difficult question. There are still so many elements of the Weim personality which I love, which the SRP just doesn't have. But I do think, comparing your average UK Weim to the SRP, that the SRP would be a better choice as a working dog. And is much easier in terms of puppyhood and behavioural traits etc.
But for my 3rd dog, I just want to get something TOTALLY different, like I was even thinking (she whispers) a PUG!!!!! But that won't be for ages because I don't think this house can fit more than 2 dogs, even if the 3rd one was a pug!!!!
|
||||
| weimardan |
'glint in their eye that hides a great sense of humour and a lust for life... '
My Slovak is always up to mischief and your description is spot on. I have had Weimars for 22 years and he is nothing like any Weimar I have owned or know. But then again I was told by a very good dog trainer that he doesnt think like any dog she has trained before
He has not been easy to train but we have had lots of fun and laughter as well as tears
Jumping in on your question to Jo, I would still go for the Slovak again and probably will in the future. because he makes me smile every day.
|
||||
| josie |
Yes, Grey is full of mischief too. I left out of my earlier comparison the fact that Grey is a big chewer of hard objects! We have lots of tough Nylabones which she loves. When she was a tiny little puppy we had one of the Nylabone packs which have 3 different softnesses of chews - really soft, medium soft and hard chew. The idea being that as the puppy grows, it will prefer harder chews. Well Grey showed no interest in the first 2, so I gave her the really hard one and she loved that from the start and has always preferred hard things to chew! She also chews for pleasure a lot more than Slate does. (Luckily, or due to huge number of Nylabones we provide her with, she chews appropriate things!) | ||||
| Louilou |
Hiya,
Hope you don't mind me crashing your thead. This is my first post actually! I'm getting a SRHP male pup in early June. It's my first dog and so I'm a bit in awe of you guys and your working trials. Here is a piccie of my boy at 4 weeks: 
I'm still thinking of a name, but current favourite is Flint. Lou |
||||
| josie |
Hi welcome to the forum. He looks v cute. | ||||
| weimardan |
Hi and welcome
Denise |
||||