Questions for GWP owners

elptb · Questions for GWP owners

Hi,

I'm considering buying a GWP, and was wondering what you other GWP owners use yours for mostly.
Do you find them well suited to any terrain or job in particular?
Are they really as prone to hard-mouth as I have heard?!

I already work an ESS but this would be my first HPR dog, and I would appreciate any feedback concerning the pros and cons of the breed!

Thanks,
E

Rhimad

Hi We have 7 GWP's and we use them for game and deer work.

You need to forget everything you we ever told about training your spaniels Laughing

when training a GWP. They really are a versatile gundog, but can be hard work during the training process (and beyond!!).

I havent had a problem with hard mouths, but when we first looked into GWPs we were told the same thing, crocodile mouths!! I think there were maybe a few dogs around in the early days which were harder mouthed than we would like, but I think they are few and far between now, go to a reputable working breeder, ask to see the bitch work and the dog if possible, and the rollercoaster will then begin Rolling Eyes

just kidding We love em and wouldnt have anything else to do the job that we need to do.

There are experienced wire owners and trainers on here, so there is help at hand if you need it.

windem bang

Hard mouth is my pet hobby horse subject, yes many of the wirehairs I've seen have been hard mouthed --- along with many of the G.S.P.'s , Weimaraners and all of the rest of 'em !!!

If I was buying I would try to see both the bitch and dam work or failing that I'd look at their trialling credentials. I'd want soft mouth on BOTH sides of the pedigree.

Unless I knew the breeder VERY well I would not take their word for it about their dogs mouth. Some owners seem to believe that if a dog brings back 9 out 10 birds O.K. then that's fine. To me that is a hard mouthed dog !

If I could not do any of this then I would NOT buy a pup of that breed.

Bill T.

kiwi

to turn the questions back on you, what do you want a gwp for?
what sort of work would you be doing with it and what do you expect from it?..........i always ask this when hunters ring me up enquiring about a pup.

countrygirl

Hi E

I have 2 that I use as picking up dogs its a great breed but as has already been said require alot of training and in the early days it can feel like you are banging your head agains a brick wall(or a stubbon wirehair Very Happy

)

My advice is the same as others go for one from proven working strain and one that is going to be kc registared(there are a couple of litters around at the moment that arnt) as you might like to do working test or trials later on when you get bitten by the bug Very Happy

Caz

Helen S

I would agree with everything above especially that these are truly versatile, intelligent dogs and do best at the more challenging aspects of work.

Helen S

elptb

Thankyou for all your replies! Very Happy

I intend to train the pup up for beating and picking up on a couple of local pheasant shoots, (much like I am doing with my ESS) but obviously to point game aswell.
I would also like to use her while rough shooting when just going for a walk round the fields, so pretty much a good all rounder!
The fact that they must be from good working stock is top of my list, also that they are docked & KC reg, ideally with the parents having been screened for HD & vWB.
Is there much trouble from elbow dysplasia within the breed? I wasn't aware of it until lately, I have heard it can be a problem in larger dogs such as these?

E

kiwi

perhaps a britt will be a better choice Rolling Eyes

i can't comment on beating or picking up as i don't think gwp's are labs or ess but they make very good rough shooting dogs....mind you so do labs and spaniels.

elptb

One of the shoots I beat at and occasionaly shoot on is all three, a rough shoot, with driven days, and a few walked up days too.

I doubt I'll be put off getting a GWP, it's just a case of finding the right breeder with the right litter! If i don't get one I don't think I'd get another dog at all as I don't fancy just geting another Springer (not that I don't like them!) and I've never really been that taken with labs.

Also I can't really deny that looks don't play a big part in this!

Thanks for the info though, as it's not something I want to rush into!

kiwi

it's a wise man that never rushes in mate Wink

they are great dogs, i just don't like seeing hpr's being used on a beating lines or as picking up dogs.........sounds silly i know Laughing

althrey

kiwi, what dont you like about HPR's being in the beating line?
i am new to HPR's but i intend to use my Wire Vizsla mainly in the beating line. though i do have so qualms about their use for beating myself, i'd like to know what your are.

A

windem bang

In the U.K. there's not a lot of wild boar hunting so if you really want to use an H.P.R. to work a beating line or go picking up with , good luck to you ! I personally don't like using H.P.R.'s as beating dogs, my usual hunting practices and the needs of the beating line do not often coincide. In short my dogs are a pain in the nether regions in a beating line! Laughing

Bill T.

windem bang

A --- We have crossposted. I.M.O. a properly trained ,hard going type of H.P.R. is not suitable for the beating line. I have done beating with spaniels, with labs and with Brittanies and G.S.P.'s -- I've even done it with a border collie. I am not breed blind but a hard going pointing dog does not belong in a beating line. It will either get itself or you or both of you into trouble or it will be less than it could be as a hunting dog.

A dog not hunting the wind properly is less noticable at spaniel/ lab distances that occur in beating lines. Training a pointing dog to work contrary to the wind is not a clever idea. If it does that outwith the beating line it will fail to point and could put birds up out of range. i If the birds are still in range as the dog uses the wind not at all or improperly then you have taught your H.P.R. to be a spaniel or a labrador and not a very good one at that !

What you want is not impossible but it does have drawbacks, I have only described a few of them.
Good luck.

Bill T.

kiwi

beating lines and picking up to me is a job for spaniels and labs, your country leads the world in those breeds.
just my own thoughts nothing more, i have read a few times of how a hpr breed didn't cut it as a beating dog or picking up dog on a shoot and that experience was branded to the breed as a whole.

kiwi

sorry bill, you have written exactly the same as what i did but then decided not too and deleted it.....i agree with you for what it's worth

Bareve

Hi there

I agree with what everything that has been said on here already with regards to the breed and their trainability Laughing

There are plenty of pups for sale and planned so you are doing the right thing about not rushing in and speaking to breeders to establish what their plans are and to see if they have the experience to help you should you meet any training problems. Most reputable breeders do the health checks so you should be able to find a puppy from tested parents.

With regards to establishing working ability - it is a good idea to ask to see the mother (and hopefully father) working but not just on retrieving tasks you need to also see how they react on meeting game (it's not much fun seeing them unsteady and watching them disappear over the horizon) and how biddable they seem to be.

As for beating and picking up with them - we've sold puppies before to people wanting to use them in the beating line and they have geared their training accordingly - letting them hunt the wind naturally but keeping them closer than you would normally want them to be ranging. One of our bitches is such a slug she is a doddle to work in the beating line whereas the likes of our Freddy stock they would be impossible as they range far too far for a beating line.

It also depends very much on your keeper as the one on the shoot I go to is very understanding with our HPR's and when we are in the open he wants us to keep them close but when we go into the wood he doesn't care how far forward they range.

As for picking up - once you have established their retrieving skills (I've found that the majority prefer to hunt than to retrieve) they are very good and much easier to set them onto a runner and leave them to it compared to Labs.

As for the puppy being docked - the "working" litters will be docked as they can provide the necessary paperwork. However despite the dual purpose kennels also being able to provide the paperwork required we still want to show our dogs so we are being forced into leaving tails on. Plus of course it is illegal to dock in Scotland so any Scottish puppies will also have full tails.

Normally when we have a working enquiry we always put them onto Rory Major who is the only person ever to achieve F/T Champion status in our breed and he's done it twice. His kennel name is Bryantscroft and his website will come up if searched in a search engine.

HTH

elptb

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for the reply, I have my eye on one particular kennel which not only screens its dogs for HD & vWB, ensures tails are docked, and breeds from good working stock (pedigrees including a few FTCH) but one of the breeders is a full-time gamekeeper.
I have been in touch with them since February and have just emailed them asking what their stance is on this tricky topic!
Hopefully they too will have some valuable input, as having a background in keepering I would have thought they must have experienced both sides of it.

I can see now how taking a HPR in the beating line could cause problems with both the training of the dog and also the drive itself, but also the shoot that I beat on is small and managed well enough to hopefully make it easy for me to keep a good distance away from other dogs when beating. Also the other dogs are kept under better control than at some other shoots anyway!

Thanks for the refence to the Bryantscroft kennel, I shall follow that up in the morning.

E

Helen

Welcome to the board E. I currently have 2 gwp's. I have taken one in the beating line but only purely for experience of a shoot day. We also have springers who we use for beating. I do think springers excel at beating.

However, if you are keen to have a gwp, I'm sure you can gear the training towards it, as well as for rough shooting. The shoot you go to, does sound ok for a hpr. One of my main worries about beating with a hpr on a shoot where the dogs are mainly spaniels and labs, is that they will steal the point. I've seen it happen on numberous ocasions when I've seen hpr's in a beating line and eventually, that dog stopped pointing altogether - not good when you are wanting a pointing dog to shoot over.

Good luck in your search. (I thought there were only 2 FTCH gwp's in this country?)

Helen

elptb

Hi Helen,
thanks for the welcome Very Happy

The FTCH in the pedigrees are a few generations back along the line, but hey, its something! Laughing

E

Lynn · gwp pedigree

Could the pedigree possibly have FTW in it as apposed to FTCH - there could be several of those?

cressy

Having introduced my elderly (oops don't let him read this Laughing

) Brittany to beating this year I can certainly see where people feel it is not the right place for an HPR. Mugi was a city pet for 10 yrs and this is absolutely ideal for him, he gets out hunting aged 11 yrs, he is biddable and loves it - especially the partridge drives. If the wind is right and we are short of beaters he gets a good run, if the wind is right but we have enough beaters I have to handle him lots to keep him close and if the wind is wrong we have a nice bimble on lead Laughing

.

I will not be taking my youngster on the beating line at all, his hunting pattern is too wide already (although he responds to me well), and he would find the environment too frustrating.

Picking up, well maybe - Mugi will be allowed to pick-up this next season if he improves his retrieve a little. Chase may get the odd day if and when he proves he could cope and if I can't find a way to get him working more naturally.

Ghilliegumdrop

Well I have worked both a GWP and Brittany in the beating line and picking up without problems, apart from the odd hare that decided to pop up as a distraction now and then. Possibly because my dogs were usually the only ones working at the time, on this shoot, they seemed to be able to switch from beating to picking up and vise versa. Certainly if Jaffa [GWP] ever said something was there then there was something there and the rest of the gang soon realised that. Ghillie very rarely misses anything and tends to work well within sight in the woods but ranges further out when on the fields [now and again she disappears into the next farm but is usually back within minutes] Most years I get a call asking if she can come on the shoot and, by the way, you better come as well Exclamation

Rhimad

Where we go beating, because we know the Head Keeper we are given our own drives to beat, no spaniels or labs just our four GWP's and a Brittney. These beats are open ground or low cover either stubble or game crop etc. The problem with working a hpr in a beating line with spaniels, spaniels dont appreciate that Hpr's point and will often flush the game from under the hpr's nose. Some spaniel owners dont seem to understand how and hpr works and will often let their spaniel steal the flush. If you are on a shoot that is all hprs or spaniel owners that understand how an hpr works then it could all work fine.

You could end up with a hpr that wont hold a point or will point then flush straight away or even start pegging birds.

We had a brittney come to us for training, she would peg birds or point then flush really quick because she had been working alongside spaniels, whose owners didnt think much for hprs anyway Rolling Eyes

. It took a lot of hard work to steady her down again, she will now hold a point and back our gwps.

Also there are drives which arent suitable for hprs as they are to dense in cover, you wouldnt never see them on point which could again teach them to flush without holding a point or peg birds, or worse stop them pointing all together Crying or Very sad

If you dont have the option of picking and choosing where you work your hpr then you have to make the best of what you have got and adapt your training accordingly.............I am just spoilt Laughing

and can pick and choose.

Best place for the HPR is up on a grouse moor, I love to watch ours work on grouse, it brings a tear to the eye Laughing

Especially when you have dam, sire and offspring all backing each other Laughing

that was a sight and Helen had left the camera in her car Rolling Eyes

sashalgwps

We are very looking on the shoot that we go. As Sharon said we have a keeper who appreciates the HPR way of working. We are also very fortunate in that the dogs are almost entirely made up of HPRs - GWPs, Vizslas, GSPs mainly.

We have had some great sights seeing the dogs of various breeds backing each other up on point.

I have many happy memories of our Boogie and her 'Vizsla boyfriends' working and then all being on point together.

Alex

elptb

I forgot to mention that the brilliant, awesome, fantastic, and ever so good at his job, keeper on the shoot I go to has a HWV which will be in the beating line!
E

sashalgwps

Helen

elptb

Hapsberg

Hapsberg

Helen

I think I did have my phone with me but forgot it had a camera! It was one of those ocasions that I will always remember, even if I don't have an actual momento of it happening.

Helen

Rhimad

Definately

Questions for GWP owners

gwp pedigree