Retreiving next to Labradors

zacharias · Retreiving next to Labradors

Hello everyone,

sometime ago I included a post in relation to the retrieving problems I have with my two and a bit Vizsla.

To reiterate 2/3ds of the exercise are spot on but the delivery is very poor in that once he sees me on return the games start.

He goes on his own way in a crazed look in his eye and starts playing around with the retrieve. Any commands I give to him he point blank ignores. The obvious and most common solution to this problem is to run or walk the other way, problem is he runs past me I then change direction he runs past me again !! eventually he slowly follows me and then drops the retrieve behind me and the whole exercise takes an age to complete.

I have got him to going back probably 300-400 yards for a blind, no problem !!! but like I say the delivery has got me pulling my hair out. Embarassed

Interestingly, I read in the shooting times last week a comment by one of the group who attended the SRPC working test (perhaps some of you were there) that HPR’s are obviously not the natural retrievers that Labradors are and that for progress they should be trained next to Labradors (not sure if those were the exact words but I think I have captured the jist of it)

Furthermore, In Michael Branders book ‘the pointer –retriever gundog’ he demonstrates training a younger GSP against an older more experienced GSP.

I know of people involved in my shoot who trial Labradors would it be incredible to think that running my dog next to these dogs (away from a shooting day) may help ? or is this philosophy used purely to get dogs out to hunt for a retrieve (there’s no hazard of that with mine !!!)

Just wondered what members of the forum thought about this, Ironically this part of gundog work i.e. retrieving gives me the most enjoyment but is also causing me the most grief.

Would a decent professional trainer be able to help me cure this behaviour or do they tend to work with younger dogs and teach them the correct way from the start ?

One lady I spoke with briefly suggested that he may be bored of dummies, but since then I have had used pigeons, Pheasants, Partridge even woodcock so I done believe that to be the problem.

I can live with dropping them at my feet for now I just need to get him in close.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Very Happy

Many Thanks

Rob.

countrygirl

Hi Rob

I dont know weather this will be of much comfort but my wirehair bitch who was 4 yesterday did much the same to very recently, we just kept on and on at her to bring it in and if she dident she wouldent get any more retriving, we have got to the stage in the garden where she comes and sits next to you and holds it then we give praise and take. I did pick up with her all last year and just excepted the fact that she wouldent deliver to hand it will be intersting to see in a few weeks time who the training has worked when she starts picking up again

Caz

ps these hpr's arnt labs and dont do things at anything like the same speed of learning wise as labs

shirley cooper

I think what Jean meant (article in shooting times) was to train the dogs with labrador trainers or at lab clubs. I was at the test at snetterton and have also attended the same group training as Jean with a lab trainer.

zacharias

Its interesting to hear other peoples training problems !!

Think I am getting the jist, I understand that HPR'S are far more complex mentally than an english gundogs. One lady told me who trials Munsterlanders that HPR's dont fully mature until 3-4 years old.

Did your wire hair play around with the retrieve similar to what I explained in the original post ? Its a nightmare but maybe its just a case of perseverance.

windem bang

I.M.O. your dog is seeing its return to you as the end of its fun. There are a couple of ways of dealing with this and I suggest an amalgam of them might be best.

Train your dog to come to you without a retrieve in its mouth wherever and whenever you call it no matter what distractions are around . Be a lot more fun to be with when your dog arrives back at you. If you have been making it sit then stop doing that.

Train for the retrieve without the dummy at first and inside your house. Then add the dummy . Then in the garden ,if you have one. A car park or similar if you have not. Don't move back outside into the fields until your dog is 100% O.K. at retrieving under easily controlled conditions.

Consider teaching your dog a dummy delivery using a clicker. I don't know why you seem to think labradors are just about perfect at retrieving , they are not. Within the last few months I have helped two lab owners whos dogs were behaving just like yours to complete the retrieve with a decent non -sitting delivery. I showed them the clicker as an aid to the delivery.

If you train that part of the retrieve with the clicker and then, once the delivery is 110% , withold the click and the treat ,there is a very good chance that your dog will "freeshape" - will offer you other behaviours in order to get the click and the treat. When it arrives at the behaviour of sitting with the dummy still in its mouth - click on that one ! Laughing

Never thought I'd be telling folk to train C.T. ! Laughing

A sitting delivery isn't an essential - not for gundog work . Some dogs see it as a cessation of fun. Perhaps almost as a punishment ?

A h.p.r. not required for hunting can be trained retrieving to a very high standard just as is the case with labs. A dog that loves to hunt is a bit more difficult to train for fancy retrieves - they want to hunt the wind. To quarter.
People who train labs for trialing don't have too much of a problem in that respect.

I doubt if letting your dog see labs retrieving would work any better than letting it see good H.P.R. or good spaniels or good border collies in an obedience ring retrieving. A basic retrieve is that a dog goes out whether 5 feet or 500 yards ,picks up the dummy then returns to plonk it in your hand. Train your dog to do basic retrieves at 5 to 15 feet before giving it the privilege of longer run-outs .
Bill T.

countrygirl

Hi Rob

I can say my wire bitch did all you have discribed and more Shocked

The fact that she has just turned 4 has alot to do with her settling down.

At the moment I am getting her to come and sit by me so I have control and can give he plenty of praise without he spitting the dummy and shooting off, it has been a very long road with her, hopefully once she has it fully ingrained on her brain I will drop the sit as I wont require her to do it with every pheasant she picks up on the shoot.

Hope this helps

Caz

lagopuslagopus

zacharias

Thanks to everybody for all the advice,

My dogs recall is pretty good, I was thinking If I send him out with a dummy in his mouth then recall him with the whistle would this seem like a reasonable way forward ?

windem bang

Personally I would try anything I thought might work - not excluding attaching a fishing line,rod and reel to your dog and "playing" him !

Bill T.

lagopuslagopus

Have you got a narrow alleyway somewhere or can you make one to use for retrieving until he gets the idea that he comes straight back to you?