switching off hunting, switching on retrieving

Mike · switching off hunting, switching on retrieving

How do others go about practicing the transition from one to the other? I was suprised the other day how hard the transition had become, Harley was tending to go no more than 20m and then starting to free hunt.

Chilly

Hi Mike

I am no expert I must profess!!!!.... But......

The way I have done it with my eldest and now with my youngest is by giving a clear and distinctive command for both. Both being completely different so they understand.

Furthermore, with regards to retrieving, I have and continue to do alot of 'Straight Line Training'. This means that when I give the retrieve command, verbaly as well as physically (Bending down giving direction) I expect the dog to go in a straight line for ever until he finds the retrieve.

Admittedly it has it flaws, one being the runner, two me not marking the retrieve. However it gets to a point when the dog now knows that when that command is given that is what is expected of him/her. If it means that the dog has taken scent of a runner then the dog 'should' be clever enough to work it out, as with an incorrectly marked retrieve.

This therefore means that the dog is homed in on a retrieve when given the command and that means no free hunting, using their nose, but no free hunting!!

Does that make sense????

Chilly

Vizellven Vizslak

swainsons

Hello Mike,

Chilly is on the right track. I am doing a lot of straight line seen retrieves and this seems to be helping. Just last weekend we where shooting pigeons and my little Brittany did very nicely and I think it has to do with the above. I also do lots of seen multiples. My Brittany has not understood blinds yet, so once she really excels at seen falls and straight lines I will slowly start introducing blinds. Maybe you expecting to much to soon from your dog.

Best Regards,

Leon

munstyman

Hi Mike,
I assume your now talking about dummies / cold game retrieving.....after a season out on the real thing. To me, its that old chesnut of the dog beginning to set its own agenda. Hunting is what he WANTS to do, Retrieving is what YOU want him to do in this instance, which gets their way will determine the future Exclamation

As mentioned above, stick to seen, marked retrieves so that the dog is given no excuse to `hunt' for the retrieve. As soon as the dog deviates from the line to hunt stop it, sit it leave it for a few seconds ( so it knows who's boss) repeat the command to retrieve, if the dog makes the retrieve up the reward praise (at completion not as encouragement). If the dog slips back into hunting repeat above steps as many times as neccessary.
Dogs that show this behaviour, immediately have the `right' to hunt taken from them. It is then used effectively as a reward if they complete a good retrieving session, whilst at the same time I up my praise emphasis on all retrieves. I find this method very flexible in mulipurpose gundogs as inveriably they perfer to do one thing rather than the other, the hard part is recognising the subtle early warning signs Wink

And mike you've done that Cool

.
Peter

josie

I read somewhere, can't remember where, to keep retrieving and hunting separate for a long time, until you have both going pretty good. I did this with Slate from a young age - we had "hunting" days and "retrieving" days and we didn't mix them in the same session. This helped her learn they are two separate things, I think, and was a really good tip. (Think it may have been the Guy Wallace book actually.)

After some shotover days this season, I realised - dur - I should have combined them before this.

So, now when we are practising hunting and Slate flushes something and I sit her, we watch the game away and then I fire a blank and throw a dummy - just an easy seen retrieve. So she comes to expect that, after the flush and sit, there comes a retrieve. So far she is retrieving dummies fine and with great enthusiasm, not blanking me to hunt. This morning we had a flush on a heron (!) and a duck.

DesO'Neile

I haven't trained all that many dogs that retrieve, from scratch, and I have never trained a H.P.R. but I wouldn't ever consider doing the hunting and then the retrieving. I have found that once you start hunting everything else becomes second best in the dog's mind. I thought I had done enough retrieving with my Clumber before I started him hunting but I hadn't and now that he is hunting mad I fear his retrieving will never progress above the acceptable level it is now at.

lagopuslagopus

Contrary to what a lot of people say I have never kept the two separate. From being small I have always incorporated retrieving into the hunting so that is what they get used to right from the start, and haven't had a problem with mine switching off from one to do the other. Perhaps it helps if they are keen retrievers in the first place, which mine were.

windem bang

I tend to split the hunting and retrieving even more by having, while a pup is young, a third split in its training. Whenever possible I avoid having "must do it" obedience mixed in with either hunting or retrieving. By doing this I hope to prevent any idea in the pups head that hunting or retrieving could have negative aspects.

While this is going on the pup is taught what it" should do." The "must do" is not blended in until I can see that the pup is beginning to develop a real head of steam. Pups vary a great deal in how quickly they begin to think they know it all and can do it all by themselves.

I have tried teaching hunting and retrieving together and I have tried teaching them sparately. With one exception I have managed to train hunting and retrieving together with g.s.p.'s with no real problems. With brittanies allowing a brit. pup to develop its hunting instinct before the retrieving is well advanced has been ,with the ones I've worked with, a big mistake. I have never met a brittany that would not hunt, I have met several that were non-retrievers or poor retrievers.

Something I avoid like the plague is allowing the young dog to put together in its head the sequence of hunt - point - retrieve. Most h.p.r. handlers want their dogs to do this as soon as possible and get very annoyed if their dogs find the bird, point it and flush it only to have some unruly dog run-in on it. I try in training not to allow my dogs to complete the sequence. A friends dog is sent for thebird, or a dog kept at my heel is sent for it, or I pick it up myself. This breaks the sequence in the dogs head and the flushing dog is much less likely to run-in. Seeing another dog go for the bird gives my dog a bit of very good steadiness training. When a dog competing in a trial has hunted and pointed it comes as a very pleasant surprise to it to be allowed to complete the sequence. This has worked well for me , no dog of mine has ever ran in during a trial or even required a warning word, gesture or whistle.

W.B. --- One toot and yer oot !!!

BritAnnie

swainsons

Hi Annie,

Yup, both my Brits have been very reluctant retrievers. When I trained the older one I had no idea what I was doing, so I cant blame it on the dog, BUT, I think I can count on one hand the birds that he has lost on a shoot. He does find them and retrieve them, but training him was very difficult. So after all is said, he is a great dog.

My problem child went thru force fetch, and now she cant get enough. I have to really work on steadiness cause she will break if I dont keep her in check. Our shooting season starts on 1 May and then we will see if all my training has paid off.

I am still of the opinion that you cant train a HPR to the same level (ito retrieving) as a Labrador or golden, or the effort to get it to the same level is so great that it is not worth it.

Regards,

Leon