| Archive for workinghprs.myfastforum.org Chat forum for owners of working HPR and Versatile gundog breeds. |
| Sparviter |
Training a Brittany for GoshawkingHi to the forum.I haven't posted for ages as I have been very busy with my goshawk over the past season. Now that the hawking season is over, dog training season has again begun in earnest. My Brittany pup (Tyler) is now 11 months old and has come on in leaps and bounds. He is dropping well to the whistle, recalling well, starting to walk to heel off leash and is finally starting to retrieve dummies well. I have attempted retrieving cold game with him, but that was a big failure as he will run off and eat it! I am planning on doing alot more work with different dummies, and then try a bird wrapped in tights. Heres a couple of recent pics... Lee. 
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| johnhod |
Great picture Lee | ||||||
| Sparviter |
Heres a few pics from last season of me, my gos and my friend's Brittany. This is my friend's first HPR and he has done a fantastic job with her. I am lucky to have him on hand for advice.
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| Sparviter |
And a couple of pics of my pup with the gos from a few months ago...
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| Sparviter |
Some pics from retrieval training today...
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| Sparviter |
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| Sparviter |
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| guy |
pleasure to see those | ||||||
| lagopuslagopus |
He looks as though he's having fun Lee. Where is the water in your photos?
Karen |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks for the replies.
Pics were taken here Karen www.nunsmere.co.uk |
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| goffy |
Re: Training a Brittany for Goshawking
HI Lee, I had a similar problem with my GWP, in that he would try to eat the pheasant, i have managed to sort the problem by doing steady exercises sit stay while i threw game around him then picked up my self. and retrieve exercises such as left right back and memory Fred knew how to do these retrieves with dummies dockens and other items so i then put the game in as a different item, i would send him for the left dummy and then pick the right pheasant myself, finally then sending him for both retrieves, dummy and game as he knew the idea was to return straight back to me Occaisionally when he did the game retrieve well i would then throw the pheasant behind me and allow him to run in an pick it this he thought was a great game and he knew i wasn't running off with his prize. we have not this season had the opportunity to try fresh shot game, but he will now retrieve cold game to hand good luck jan |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks Jan. That was very helpfull. 
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| windem bang |
Lee - I'm not trying to be funny at your expense here but in addition to putting the game inside tights etc. you might try feeding your dog to bursting point before the retrieve session begins !
I am not trying to take the mickey. I had a G.S.P. that would hunt,point and retrieve grouse, then at the end of a long day she would eat them in the back of the landrover coming back down the hill !! I also know an A Panel H.P.R. judge who used to feed his bitch a pie just prior to the water test retrieve at the end of a trial - she ate a bird at a previous trial having got just a bit too hungry ! Never forget that what is a valuable head of game to you is maybe just food to a hungry dog. Bill T. |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks very much Bill. He is a very greedy dog, and from what I hear this is a typical Brit trait. Is it not dangerous for his health to run on a full belly? (twisted bowls etc.) |
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| Sparviter |
Today's pics...
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| windem bang |
Do the game retrieving as a completely separate thing. A short distance retrieve is unlikely to cause any stomach problems. No hunting on a full stomach but the hunt isn't neccessary , divorce the hunt from the retrieve until you have full control of the retrieve.
Once a habit has been established of coming straight back to you with game then the big feeds can stop and normal service can be resumed. Bill T. |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks Bill.
I was starting to have trouble with him running off with the dummies, so thats what I did. I did the retrieve as a seperate exercise at home. When he got that 100% I tried him in the field. Things went well at first, but he is starting to carry dummies away again now, so we will be back in the garden again for a while. I will hold off on game for a while and stick to dummies. Thanks, Lee. |
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| windem bang |
One of the most common and worst mistakes that H.P.R. trainers make is trying - or even insisting - to have their dogs do the full hunt-point- retrieve. I have been saying that for years yet still people try to put the whole lot together just as often as they possibly can.
I won a Novice trial with a bitch that hadn't been shot over - she'd picked a few birds but not birds that had been shot from her points. When it came to the trial she was totally unsteady and would have ran in at once had she seen game fall. I distracted her just as the gun fired on the birds she'd pointed and flushed. She didn't see the fall so she remained "steady." She won the trial . It took a bit more training before I allowed her to put two and two together and come up with the answer that birds get shot following a flush ! This may not be something to be proud of but it does prove what can be done ,even in trials , by not allowing a dog to put together the hunt- point - retrieve. Done too often many dogs will anticipate the retrieve part ............. 
Don't be in a great hurry to put together the hunt-point - retrieve. From what I've read you and your friend are working together to train and work your dogs - that is a very good system. If you go out shooting together then 2 times out of three have your friends dog retrieve any game shot from your dogs points while you do the same for his dogs points. This is assuming the other dog is under control at heel or on the lead. Doing this will keep the retrieve enthusiasm but greatly reduce the chances of a future run -in since the certainty has been taken away from the pointing dog that the fallen bird will be its. Bill T. |
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| Sparviter |
Today's pics...
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| Sparviter |
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| caithness hunter |
big joe doesnt get any better looking
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| guy |
out of interest is that a remote collar? | ||||||
| Sparviter |
Yes. it has worked amazingly! Now he is wearing it, but i dont have too use it at all. 
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| Sparviter |
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| Sparviter |
Today...
Lee. |
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| johnhod |
Some nice pictures there Lee | ||||||
| magyar viz |
Hi lee which is more difficult,the bird or the dog to train 
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| Sparviter |
The dog... Definately! The hawk was a piece of cake... 
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| magyar viz |
Am looking to get a harris hawk from a local falconer this year, he has been breeding & working bop for 40 odd years and is going to take us under his wing  , us being, my son with the bird & myself with the dog  , would love a goshawk but every thing i have read say it is not a bird for the novice. 
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| Sparviter |
Some pics from a recent training session...
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| Sparviter |
Here he is retrieving a furry dummy ...
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| BritAnnie |
And who says Brittanys don't retrieve!  Looking good! My lad is playing the teenager stuff so has been put back to basics and regular training class!
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| Sparviter |
This morning I took Tyler out with my friend, John and his Brittany, Jess...
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| Sparviter |
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| BritAnnie |
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| Sparviter |
Today, without the E-collar. Retrieving warm game...
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| Sparviter |
Today...
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| Sparviter |
Steadiness training yesterday...
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| caithness hunter |
looks to be coming along well 
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| Sparviter |
Just a nice photo from a couple of days ago...
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| BritAnnie |
Awww........ he looks lovely. | ||||||
| Higgins |
Quail hunting with Immature female Coopers Hawk.
http://www.higginsgundogs.com/images/DSC00009 Brad Higgins Higgins Gundogs www.higginsgundogs.com |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks Brad. Some interesting things on that site.
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| Sparviter |
I am now polishing off Tyler's training in preperation for the comming season. I am also currently training a sparrow hawk, which is proving usfull for getting him used to being around hawks.
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| Sparviter |
Tyler was a bit naughty today.  At least he retrieved it live to hand though...
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| Sparviter |
Well, the goshawk "Lupo" has finally finished his moult and should be ready to hunt by next weekend. I have been taking Tyler out with friends' goshawks recently and he has been working very well. Last wednesday I worked him on partridge for two friends. He pointed a bird, flushed on command and dropped to flush perfectly while my friends goshawk was slipped and made a kill. I can't wait to fly my own gos over him!
Here is Lupo the goshawk in his new adult plumage... 
Here are some friends with their goshawks working with Tyler... 
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| Sparviter |
And here are some photos of Tyler working...
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| Sparviter |
I also have a new adition to the team. Here is Ruby, a gift from my good friend John Ostranica.
John's bitch is an incredible worker and I am very pleased to have one of her pups. Here is the mother, Jess... 
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| BritAnnie |
Super photos, what's your pup's breeding? | ||||||
| guy |
puppy awww
bitch - a nose like my Topaz's - serious instrument for finding birds! |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks Annie. The new pup is related to Tyler on her sire's side, but not too close for futre breeding potential.
She is exactly what I wanted in the way of a bitch from similar lines. Here are the parents... http://www.brittanyclub.co.uk/bri..._database_view_record.asp?ID=3191 http://www.brittanyclub.co.uk/bri..._database_view_record.asp?ID=3085 |
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| Sparviter |
Do you mean the shape of her snout? It is compleatly different to my dog. Would you say that makes a difference to game finding ability? |
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| BritAnnie |
Breed standard says -
Looks nice and black. Her Great grandfather is my Belle's brother.(Yarak Viola to Aberdon) She won the TAN in 2007 3 months after I got her. Bloomin good nose. Comes from the Keranlouan side. |
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| guy |
Yes - Topaz has a slightly long - relative to the breed standard nose - but super at finding game. Not sure nose length is synonemous with game finding I think it is more complex than that - combination of things - size of nostrils, length of snout, rate of breathing for instance. Desire. |
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| Sparviter |
Thanks Guy. .................... The new pup is comming on great and has learned to sit for me to throw her a toy. The goshawk is just about ready to go hunting again perhaps tomorrow or the next day.
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| BritAnnie |
That's coming from the American blood, there are quite a few like that in the UK.
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| windem bang |
Yes but the ideal proportions for what ? Scenting game ? Holding retrieved game ? Why 3 to 2 ? Bill T. |
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| guy |
His pedigree is here http://www.epagneulbreton.org.uk/gallery/topaz/topaz%20pedigree.xls if you are minded / have the time I would appreciate knowing which of his ancestors are American. I have noticed a good number of early French champions were a bit long of snout - there is a list in Louvet I think - will check tonight. |
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| BritAnnie |
My apologies, he is pure French - was thinking of the wrong dog - I remembered he went back to Sonnenberg or Baywillow and thence Bredebeck. Bill to answer your question, the ratios in the skull have no bearing on performance, no more than the colour. |
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| johnhod |
No, poncing about in a show ring
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| guy |
Ah but ... to quote Louvet - because I am reading him a bit - 'The head is the breed' | ||||||
| BritAnnie |
Yes, that is certainly true, and all the French Judges look for that "Breton look" - as I do too when I am judging. But I also look for a lot more including short loin, correct angulation, musculature - but not colour. All the others affect their working ability but not that! | ||||||
| windem bang |
I think the short muzzle turned up accidentally and was simply kept as a feature of the breed. I can see no merit in it from a work point of view and would prefer a more normal muzzle length.
There is no good reason for the brits short muzzle , it doesn't help them scent, it doesn't help them carry game and it doesn't even make the breed look better . Different yes - better no. I.M.O.
Bill T. |
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| BritAnnie |
It was there in the very first breed champion - Max de Callac | ||||||
| windem bang |
Yes that's what I mean, a breed feature was made of something that just turned up. A happenstance is being perpetuated for no practical reason.
Bill T. |
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| BritAnnie |
But it makes the difference between Allez being a Brittany or a GSP doesn't it? | ||||||
| johnhod |
Looks like your thread has been well and truly hijacked Sparviter
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| guy |
I would suggest further comment 'off topic' go here
http://workinghprs.myfastforum.org/sutra39188.php#39188 |
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| windem bang |
My apologies for helping to hijack your thread Sparviter.
Bill T. |
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| BritAnnie |
Mine too but I rather think Guy started it!
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| windem bang |
'ere - 'ere !
Bill T. |
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| Sparviter |
Don't worry about the hi-jacking folks, that was interesting!
I took Lupo (the goshawk) and Tyler for a walk behind the house yesterday, but as soon as I got out, I fealt like going home again as the heat was styfling. The sweat was pouring off my head, and the hawk and dog were both panting like crazy before we even got a flight. I decided to go and get a quick, easy kill at the pond. I sent Tyler into the reeds and a moorhen was flushed. I held Lupo back while the moorhen cleared the pond, and tried to give it a sporting chance, but it was no challenge even for a fat, unfit hawk. When Lupo gets a bit fitter in a few days we will try our hand at partridge. 
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| cressy |
Lovely pics. | ||||||
| Sparviter |
Today...
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| Sparviter |
Today...
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| Sparviter |
Tyler is proving to be a real assett to my falconry. He is now beginning to mark occupied rabbit warrens for me to ferret...
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| Sparviter |
We are now concentrating on pheasants, and doing well!
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| Bareve |
What great photos - thanks for sharing
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| Sparviter |
A few more photos...
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| Sparviter |
I have a new training issue if anybody can help me out at all... I am finding Tyler to be quite sticky on point. Does anybody have any tips to encourage him to rush forward on command?
Otherwise things are going really well. Some new pics... 
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| Sparviter |
Some more...
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| Sparviter |
Tyler injured his leg a couple of weeks ago while flushing a pheasant from under a hedge row. I am slowly trying to get him back in action as goshawking without a dog is very difficult. Here are some more photos...
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| Sparviter |
I am also starting to do a little very basic training with my pup, Ruby.
And here are a couple more photos of Ruby's mum, Jess. 
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