Training for a supersonic response to the stop whistle

santiago · Training for a supersonic response to the stop whistle

There are a few threads already discussing the stop whistle, this one just really tries to focus on one aspect: improving the speed of response. Please feel free to refer me to previous threads if this aspect has also been discussed at length.

My key conclusion from yesterday's training day with Rory Major is the importance of a very solid stop to whistle. Rory's point, I believe, was that the dog should react instantly to it, he should not think about it, just stop immediately (and sit). If you see the slightest delay in the dog, it often means that he might be thinking about whether he feels like it or not. Provided the temptation is strong enough he will sometimes not obey.

So I am putting at the top of my training goals getting a supersonic response to the stop whistle. Rory suggested an interesting method to train this. In order to be able to use it, you need a dog that enjoys retrieving. And that is another good reason to spend a lot of time early on retrieving but without overdoing it. Once you have that, you can blow the stop whistle and immediately throw a dummy. The dog should wait to be sent for the dummy. He gets used to the idea that after the stop whistle something will happen and starts reacting faster. The retrieve is just the reward for a good behaviour. Bill T has mentioned the same ideas here a few times I believe (happy to be corrected on any differences in approach).

Do you use other methods to train for a faster response? There are a few threads as mentioned above that discuss how to train for it from scratch, but here we are talking about getting faster responses, so it is assumed the dog stops to whistle reliably already. I have experimented this morning substituting the dummy with a sausage (a third of a sausage to be precise). It seemed to work well. I also threw a couple of times a dummy and asked for the retrieve.

This method is also a great excercise for hunting crazy dogs like our beloved Brittanys. It is actually quite difficult to get them focused on the retrieve if they are hunting an interesting field (like Rory demonstrated with our dogs!).

Thanks in advance!

josie

If you have already clicker trained your Brittany, you can use the clicker for the stop whistle also. The method is really just a version of what Rory has described with the thrown dummy.

The idea is: Blow sit whistle. Dog sits. You click the second the dog's bum touches the ground. Then throw the reward BEHIND the dog (over the dog's head). You can throw a treat, you can throw a tennis ball, you can throw a dummy - whatever the dog finds rewarding. The dog sits quicker and quicker, as it learns that the faster it sits, the faster the treat is thrown.

If you are throwing treats, it can help to practise on tarmac first - or a surface where the dog can easily find the treats. Otherwise you end up waiting whilst the dog sniffs around to find the treat each time. On grass, throwing a tennis ball is easier.

The dog is allowed to move as soon as it hears the click; this is a release. So the dog is allowed to run after whatever you throw - that is part of the reward. This doesn't lead to unsteadiness; the dog can only chase on your terms and after a release.

The reason for throwing the item behind the dog is to discourage the dog from wanting to come back towards you, and to keep the dog wanting to sit where it is, at a distance.

HTH.

BritAnnie

Any advice on getting the dog to look at you when it does sit to whistle? Allez keeps on looking the way he was going. I've tried throwing bits of food for him but if he has any inkling that I have no treats or if they aren't high enough value he'll still sit down but won't look at me. Do I just stand there for 15/20/30 minutes or ad infinitum until he does?

windem bang

I know that there is a c.t. method of having a dog look at you when it stops to whistle.
If I were using food with Allez ,Annie then I'd begin with a hungry dog. I don't mean just one day hungry. I would feed him his grub a bit at a time and make him work for it.

There is a difference to a fast sit and look at handler and a fast stop and look at handler. For a dog like like Buck I often allow him to stand and look at me . For a spaniel breed - in which for this training I would include the brittany - I train for a fast sit and look at me. Spaniels can throw their bums to the deck more quickly than the bigger H.P.R.'s. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater so I do not always insist that a stopped dog sits. I do ,however, insist that it looks at me and I would consider it a case of the dog "disrespecting" me if it did not.

A dog that will not look at its handler is clearly signalling what its future intentions are .........and what it thinks of its handler at the same time ! It is the dog equivalent of sticking the finger up at you - at telling you that you do not matter in its scheme of what's important.

Bill T.

windem bang

I.M.O. - Which happens to be very similar to Rorys', a well trained dog should behave like a boxer when someone shouts "Duck !" at him . He will have ducked and avoided any possible hit to his head before he has even thought about it - it would be done in a split second.

A gundog is capable of giving the same very fast response to whistle, if it is seriously trained for. If that happens, you will probably find that you will have killed two birds with one stone. The dog will not only stop/sit fast - it will be looking at you too. You will have gained its' respect. Wink

Bill T.

shirley cooper

I will try to explain another variation which I have used with good results.Have dog near a background that when you throw a treat against it you can hear it hit the wall or board. Throw the treat over the dogs head, using action as if you are throwing a dart. Don't say anything, do that a couple of times so dog is looking behind for treat, then make throwing action, keep your hand in position as if you are about to throw a dart but don't throw treat until dog sits. Do this each time dog sits a good few times, then start to either put a word in or as I was doing just the sssssssssssssssssss sound (I tend to use this when close rather than whistle) Then repeat a good few times, make the noise and dart action, dog should immediately sit and look for flying treat. Then start to use whistle instead of ssssssss or voice and then start to do it out in the fieldetc

Helen

I need to speed up Teal's response to the stop. She is very good but will sometimes take a couple of paces, sometimes more if there is anything interesting! Shirley, when you are throwing treats, is the dog allowed to get up and get the treat?

Helen

countrygirl

That sounds useful I will give it a go, I take it in the early days you need to be between the dog and the dummy to stop running in Very Happy

Caz

shirley cooper

To start with yes, I started doing this 2 wks ago with my 10mth old HWV and 10 1/2 mth old weim. We did it in the house to start throwing a treat every time to begin with and then like everything else cutting it down so they get a treat most of the time but not always. I then started doing it whilst we are out in the field etc and today I started throwing a tennis ball sometimes instead of the treat and after a few times letting her get the ball every time I then started telling her to wait before fetching it. Both dogs got to grips with it really quickly but I must admit the sit is more or less instant with the HWV who immediately looks in the air whilst the weim tends do be a bit more laid back about it

Helen

Thanks Shirley - will give it a go.

It's really my fault that she's started getting a bit lax as I haven't been insisting on it all the time so she's been getting away with it.

Might even give it a go with my BT to see how she gets on. She is far too bright for her own good!

Helen

josie

Shirley, that sounds v similar to the clicker method - just without the click when the dog sits.

santiago

thanks everybody for the suggestions!