| Archive for workinghprs.myfastforum.org Chat forum for owners of working HPR and Versatile gundog breeds. |
| chiendog |
Training in the US desertI've posted a series of photos depicting a training session with young dogs in the New Mexico (USA) desert. In it you will see how pro trainer Terry Chandler uses a "pigeon pole" to work with young dogs when they are first exposed to pointing scenarios.Here's the link http://www.craigkoshykphoto.ca/desertdogs.html/ |
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| Dave A |
Great pictures and a new breed to me, i have never heard of the drent partridge dog it looks good, at first i thought it was a munsterlander.I have seen this method of training before, i'm not to sure if its ok in this country, something about tethering birds etc i'm certain the RSPCA would have an opinion, anyone know ?
Dave A |
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| lexmarco |
fantastic photos and a really interesting way of introducing dogs to birds thanks for the post
jr |
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| windem bang |
Terrific pics and an interesting method but not one that I would use, that pigeon may be unhurt but it must be terrified.
I think this is yet another method that would land you in jail in Britain. Bill T. |
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| chiendog |
The pigeons used by many trainers are "homers". They live in specially built pigeon coops and are fed a pretty decent diet of poultry feed and other goodies. They are called into service every couple of days and eventually get used to it.
A friend of mine had a single pigeon with which he trained dozens of dogs. He said it lived to the ripe old age of 19 years! During training sessions, the bird would be launched out of a bird launcher (electronic sort of trampoline thing) after a dog was brought up to point it. Eventually, the darn bird got so bold that it began to take the piss out of all the dogs that were there for training. Once aloft, it would make a big circle and dive bomb the pups staked out on a chain waiting for their turn!!! It would then go back to the pigeon coop to eat a free meal and fornicate with the ever-willing she-pigeons therein. He left many offspring, some of which are used as training birds still! |
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| windem bang |
I have kept fancy pigeons and racing pigeons myself . I've even had a pet woodpigeon that would fly free and land on me when I called it. Its up to the individual to decide where to draw the line for what they will or will not do with or to animals and birds. Doing that to a bird time after time, for dog after dog, takes things beyond the line for me.
I found the pics and the method interesting and I'm not telling others that they must not do that, I'm only saying that I would not do that. Bill T. |
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| chiendog |
Actually, with the pigeon pole set-up, a bird is used for two or three dogs. Once it shows signs of fatigue, it goes back to the coop. You really want a good hard flush and strong flight, so the birds are replaced fairly often during a training session.
And I agree, each trainer/person needs to decide for him/her self what methods are appropriate for the circumstances. I use frozen ducks that I've shot during the hunting season to train for the NAVHDA "search for duck" portion of the test. Many (most) others use live shackled ducks. It is much more effective to use live ducks but I cannot find any locally and even if I could, I'm not sure I'd want to shackle them and have the dogs catch and kill them. |
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| windem bang |
Back when I used to trial labs I knew many of this countries top retriever trialers. I was training with one of these men one day when he brought out a wing clipped duck and a razor blade . He cut the ducks feet lightly then released it into the grassy cover. The duck headed back towards a pond a long way away. His lab was sent to track it on the fresh blood scent.
I didn't like that and said so. He said the cuts inflicted on the ducks feet were less than you could get shaving , which was true enough. I still didn't like that kind of thing though and a good friendship came to an end . I'm not a tree hugger and I like hunting and fishing but I just can't stand seeing an animal deliberately hurt . It crosses my own personal line. Once more I'll say I'm not trying to get at you , it's just a personal thing. Bill T. |
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| lagopuslagopus |
[quote]It is much more effective to use live ducks but I cannot find any locally and even if I could, I'm not sure I'd want to shackle them and have the dogs catch and kill them.[quote]
Aren't they supposed to retrieve them gently to hand then? |
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| chiendog |
Indeed..they are "supposed to" retrieve them gently to hand. And in many cases they do. However, it is not unusual for a young dog in training, after he's done a furious chase of a duck in the water to grab it really hard, sometimes killing the duck, other time injuring it to the point that it has to be dispatched. In addition, some shackled ducks actually manage to escape into the dense reeds despite the dog's efforts to catch them. They eventually become eagle/coyote/fox/wolf food of course but they could be out there for days before that happens. Oh, and I should also add that the NAVHDA search for duck portion of the test is not to see how well the dog retrieves a duck (that is done in other portions). The goal of the search for duck section is to see how well the dog searches big areas of water+reeds. The dog is not required to actually find and retrieve a duck....only to show a very strong purposeful search for about 20 minutes after only one command. If the dog does find a duck, it must of course retrieve it. If it finds one early on (as one of my dogs did, after only about 8 minutes), the judges will ask that it be sent again to continue searching for an additional period of time. The reason live shackled ducks are so good to train for this portion is that they convince the dog that there is ALWAYS a duck out there to be chased and caught. Trainers place several of them out in the water at every training session. After a while the dog knows that there are always ducks about when given the search command and will therefore search for a long, long time. NAVDHA judges really want to see a dog cover the entire water area in an ever expanding search. Seeing a good duck search is very impressive...and is very handy in the marsh. Just last week, I sent a dog to find three birds that were downed in thick reeds. She found them all. We would have never found them without her. |
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| lagopuslagopus |
Yes, I imagine they would quite quickly get fed up if they never found anything. | ||||