cressy
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Wind patternsMugi is really seeming to start to understand wind so much better now but something happened on Thursday I couldn't quite figure out.
We had a very a harsh wind and driving rain hitting me directly on my back as we were about to start beating across a field of mustard. From watching the flight of the partridges while we were waiting to start I knew that we were heading toward a covey of around a hundred birds.
From a 'classic' quartering pattern Mugi hunted the best ever with him running flat legs to either side of me, turning to my command or body language and not pushing too far ahead. It was obviously impossible for him to scent the birds that were there at the time in front but this did not put him off hunting.
When we arrived just in front of the birds he stood firmly while they flushed into the next cover and carried on hunting through into the maize when asked where obviously scenting conditions were different as it was more sheltered at his level so I saw his hunting pattern change too.
So, accepting I am totally naive and new to all this work.
My assumption is that Mugi is starting to learn that being in the beating line in a field means a certain type of hunting behaviour is going to mean he WILL find birds and the fact that he couldn't smell the birds on this occasion due to wind direction meant he was happy to trust me that he would get his reward. Previously he has been reluctant to start hunting unless he can really scent game easily from the start.
So am I on the right tracks or is he doing something I haven't recognised???
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windem bang
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Sue, I began reading your post and almost at once I was puzzled by it and thought I must have read it incorrectly. What Mugi did in that field may be a very good thing on a beating day but it is NOT what a judge would want to see if he has any pointing dog experience at all.
The beautiful "classic" flat pattern across your front is wrong for a pointing dog when working on a tail wind such as you describe. A pointing dogs job is to get the wind into its favour and then look for bird scent. If I had hunted Vicky, Mugis' gt.,gt. granny on that same field on that same wind she would have ran well out from me, then have quartered the field back towards me. Not a good thing for a beating line but it is what a hunting dog should do - even a spaniel, but at much lesser distances and with a much reduced initial outrun.
I agree I could not have allowed Vicky to do that in a beating line - so I would NOT have hunted her under those conditions. If you ever intend to trial Chase do not train him to hunt in that way.
Mugi is enjoying himself and is too old to change now, I would continue with him as you are doing but don't do that with Chase unless you want him for beating only.
I can't remember the titles of the books that show proper wind usage, patterns etc. but a book that I think is titled "Training Gundogs" by Keith Erlandson shows what the dog should do on various wind directions. He was writing mainly about spaniels but they have to use the wind too so the patterns are very similar. You just have to up the scale a bit for a pointing dog. When looking at any of these diagrams on dogs and wind direction, remember it is much easier to draw nice straight lines in a book than it is in the field - very, very few dogs do it all perfectly and if they did I might suspect them of being lacking in nose.
Bill T.
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cressy
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Thanks Bill, I was sure he was doing it all wrong from a hunting point of view although for doing what he enjoys doing when out beating he did it right  . As you say, for Mugi at 11 and a half it doesn't matter at all and as far as I am concerned he can have all the fun he wants doing a job he loves.
Today he has been back to hunting ahead, working back to me and looping around to find scent. I tend to think he was scenting nothing at all so was happy to be directed while he was running around and as he knows he can't go too far ahead when beating he was flattening out to get further width.
I just needed confirmation it was all wrong cos a few people were saying how impressive he looked and they didn't believe me when I said he shouldn't have been working like that (I hasten to add these were novice gundog owners too).
I promise Chase will not be out beating (as much for my sanity as well as eveyone elses) as it will teach him nothing. He is now going to meet all the dogs and people as we gather before leaving the meeting place, when I say meet he has to remain focused on me and is not allowed to mess about with anyone or anything so really it is more teaching him to ignore other dogs when they are excited, that is as close to beating as he will get.
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Helen S
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Just wanted to clear something in my mind... When working with a back wind and the dog runs out and works the wind back towards the handler, should the handler more or less stand still to avoid bumping birds himself? Or should you walk and try to sandwich the birds so that they flush between you and the dog?
I find that Liesel does run out and then turn back towards me but doesn't work all the way back without my insistence. This may be due to her more independant nature, but she hasn't had much game shot for her so would tend to hunt for herself at the moment.
Helen S
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kiwi
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they will hunt/cast in a yoyo fashion helen, the end result is for the dog to stop and point, the flushing is done when you are in a position to cover the bird, as the shooter.
you may find liesel is not returning to you fully as she is using her natural urge to wind scent fresh ground not ground she has already covered,alot of energy can be saved by both the hunter and the dog by giving the dog the chance to work the area at her own pace.
it's up to you to let her do the finding so it can mean standing around and watching or walking at a slower pace so she can use her nose.
not sure if this is correct at a trial but for roughshooting it works well.
{a slow pace and liesel might not be a perfect match she can chew up the ground}
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windem bang
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There are several books that give diagrams of the "perfect" pattern on a tail wind but up to now I've only had one dog that read the same books as me !
I find most H.P.R.S. work a tail wind in an ongoing series of elipses in front of the handler.
The handler should stand still until the dogs nose has covered the ground between the far side of that elipse and the handler. When it has done this the handler waves the dog on again and the handler moves to the far side of that first elipse and so on.
Unless you happen to have a dog that does the "perfect" pattern the elipse works fairly well but a wild flush is always possible. I think I've only seen that near perfect pattern from 3 dogs. My 1st brittany, a G.S.P. bitch belonging I think to an Irish lad called Jerry Mc. Illeny ( I've probably spelled that wrong) and a Hungarian Viszla belonging if I remember correctly to Sylvia Cox. There must be others but that's all I've seen.
Bill T.
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Helen S
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Sounds like I just need to insist that she works back nearer to me each time, a bit like insisting that she casts out and turns consistently when working into a headwind. It is probably my fault for walking after the dog too, she is hardly going to bother covering ground that she considers I am covering is she?
Helen S
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DesO'Neile
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The handler stands at "A". The wind is on his back. The dog is sent directly away down wind and works a normal pattern back to the handler. When the dog gets back to the handler he then walks to "B" and repeats the exercise. The only reason there are curves on this diagram is my inability to draw correctly. It should , ideally, all be right angles.
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windem bang
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Great Des! One diagram explained it better than all my words!
Bill T.
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cressy
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Thanks Des, that explains it perfectly.
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Helen
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The first time Teal worked a back wind she was hunting flat to me and then going behind me. It didn't actually take her too long to realise that she should have been going ahead of me and working back. I was pretty thrilled with her that day, I can tell you!
Helen
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Rhimad
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It is her breeding Helen A born hunter
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