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windem bang · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject:

I haven't really thought about it before Lesley. I often do put a lead on my dog if I see an approaching dog that is being put on the lead and which is obviously ,"on it's' toes !"

But sometimes I just tell my off lead dog to sit or to walk to my heel until a dog passes. Seems to depend on the situation what I do ?

I really detest aggressive dogs, I have had an agressive dog I once owned put down and I would do it again if I had to . There are thousands of non aggressive dogs needing homes out there why anyone would want to keep one that tries to injure or kill other dogs is beyond my understanding.

I know that very often it is the owners fault that his dog is aggressive but I'm not allowed to have the owner put down !

Bill T.

johnhod · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:

Liz · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:09 am Post subject:

If I see someone put their dog on the lead, I will call my Sherry in and either put her on the lead if I don't know them or, if I've met the dog before and there's been no bother between them, make her walk close heel until we're past.

I know with Rosie, because she was attacked by a couple of dogs (1 a black lab, the other a collie-x) when a pup she will shout at strange black dogs or collies and possibly try to go for them to get her retaliation in first. (If she knows the dog, she's fine.)

The worst is people who let their dogs rush up and shout at you "he's only a pup and wants to play" - my answer to that is "explain it to my dog, cos that's not what she thinks is happening. She thinks she's being attacked!"
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Liz

windem bang · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject:

It has been raining heavily on and off all day. I dashed out with Buck to The Triangle just before it got dark during a dry spell. This area got hit by longnetters, ferreters and lurcher guys a few days ago. There is now not nearly so many rabbits around.

Buck saw 2 or 3 tonight and was absolutely steady to them but he stood ,he did not sit till I blew the whistle.

I just had time as darkness fell to do a few retrieves with him. One short seekback and 4 retrieves over broken down fences , the dummies being picked in the order I asked for. He did fine , I've no complaints but he seemed a little bored - roll on the fezzie shooting !

Bill T.

windem bang · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject:

It is again horribly muggy in between the rain showers. I took Buck up onto the parklands of U.F.O. Hill to do some directional retrieve work under easy circumstances . He could see the dummies lying out on the short grass.

By Bucks usual standards this session was not good. He appeared bored by it and to relieve his boredom he put in a few extras, like picking the wrong dummy then teasing me into a chase with it! Mad

There is still some pup left in him and some idiot left in me !!! I am sorry to say that he succeeded in this attempt to get me to chase him at his very first attempt !

He tried this another twice but with less succcess than the first time - I'd recovered my poise by then !

I tried all sorts of things with the 3 dummies I had with me. He didn't fail on anything and he didn't refuse to do anything, he just wasn't his usual keen as mustard self.

I'm thinking of doing a sneaky run on a bit of heather I know of that the twitchers have somehow claimed as their own. I've gone up there all of my life but about 20 years ago guys like me somehow became out of fashion ,even unwelcome. There are still some grouse there and I have a feeling Buck needs some real running to liven him up.

I have been invited out grouse counting but it would mean a full day of tramping up and down hillsides. I can't do that anymore but an hour or two on a hillface taken at my own speed should be O.K. If we ever get some settled weather I will take Buck and myself out for a little early morning treat.

Bill T.

windem bang · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:45 am Post subject:

This morning I took Buck and Mitch , my sons cocker up U.F.O. Hill and did some work with the two of them mainly in the woodlands. It is my intention or at least my hope to work the pair of them later in the year as my picking up team. For some reason Buck will let Charlie do almost anything to him without losing his cool but Mitch is a different story.

Buck has already flattened Mitch for being a bit too domineering , they never play together yet Buck plays happily with Charlie who is every bit as domineering as Mitch. Charlie has a habit of chucking Buck out of the kennel into the run at 2 -3 a.m. in the morning ! Buck just stands out there and looks woebegone about it !

Buck is now no softy, a Weimy that bullied him last year was met with and dealt with two days ago. It ran up to Buck in its usual manner while its inneffectual owner pleaded with it to come back. A very different Buck met this dog this time. Buck now has a punctured ear but the Weimy needed the vet.

It really is strange ,he seems to still be very willing, too willing in fact, to play with any dog of any breed that acts friendly but pity help the dog if its not ! He seems to have a weak spot where wee Charlie is concerned, Charlie gets away with murder and will even steal Bucks dinner - but not his retrieves !

This morning I loaded Mitch into the car box with Buck and set off on the short journey to U.F.O. Hill . I grumbled at both dogs as I drove and all went well. I ran them together in the woods and still all went well .
Twice Buck decided that Mitch was running too slowly along the narrow paths and "leapfrogged" him leaving Mitch sprawling. I think Mitch has decided that Buck rules O.K. !!!

I stuck to doing very simple marks and short simple memory retrieves . I was not trying to teach retrieving , I was trying to get both dogs to sit and wait while the other retrieved. This went better than I'd expected , Buck did not try to run in on or steal Mitchs' dummy and Mitch tried only once to run in for Bucks.

Mitch is now following Buck through the woods which is I suppose good in one sense but he is now going far too far away for a spaniel. Twice he "got lost" - more accurately ,I think he hit into strong rabbit scent and went selectively deaf !!! I had to stand and wait around for 2 - 4 minutes till he made his bedraggled looking return.

The two dogs still weren't boozum buddies by the end of this little walk but at least they now tolerate each other. I'm pretty sure Mitch now accepts Buck as being the head banana.
I will have them out again several times before the shooting season starts and hope they continue to "make friends."

Bill T.

windem bang · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject:

I took Buck to the Triangle again this morning and let him see some more rabbits. All went well, no chases on rabbits and one good point on a cock fezzie.

I am beginning to get fed up seeing The Triangle 'cos quite apart from Buck I've been taking Charlie the cocker there almost every day to hunt him and to train him not to chase rabbits.

Charlie was "free hunted" until I got him which means he was taken to places with lots of rabbits and encouraged to chase after them to his little hearts content - I bought a rabbit hunting , rabbit chasing little back demon.
I do much the same thing with my H.P.R.'s and eventually I hope to land up with a hunt mad nutcase and then I begin steadiness training.
The steadiness training part of it caused big problems with wee Charlie.
H.P.R. trainers have a big advantage over spaniel trainers - H.P.R. 's point. I find this makes it pretty easy to get them steady to both fur and feather.

Charlie has on more than one occasion, since I've had him , managed to get in among rabbits and has wreaked havoc and has been impossible to catch ! My belief that I could do this was shattered, nowadays I cannot even a catch a cocker . He has had a great time for about the last 2 -3 months chasing every rabbit that crossed his bows ! Mad

In order to drag a dog back to the scene of the crime you have to catch it first - just try catching Charlie !!!!

After two months or more of trying he was getting steadily worse and more confirmed in his rabbit chasing habits. He was giving me real problems ,the old tried and true spaniel training methods didn't work due to my lack of mobility. This was doubly annoying because in the other aspects of his training he has been a doddle to train. His main other fault is the same as Bucks, he couldn't mark his dinner in a dish ! This is my fault just as it is with Buck. It is caused by me doing all of my own dummy throwing.

About a fortnight ago I decided that I just had to do something about Charlies chasing. Desperate measures were applied - I taught him to sight point on rabbits ! This would get him tossed out of any spaniel trial but I'd rather have a reasonably steady dog than one I have to continually chase after.

This training method has worked just as easily and just as well as it does on the pointers. I can now take Charlie into The Triangles best bunny seeing bits and he does not chase. If the rabbits he sees are distant he acknowledges them by turning back towards me when they run. If they are up close when they run he stands to watch them away. I am now just beginning to change that sight point into a sit.

I am really pleased with the progress I've made with this little dog in the 3 months or so that I have had him. He now hunts like a little fury yet stops at once to any seen rabbit or to shot (.22 blank) or to whistle or to a loud hiss or to a thrown dummy in the air as he hunts or to hand signal. He not only sits to whistle, he throws his bum to the ground fast and looks at me for whatever I want next.

His retrieving is very good - and I am not easily pleased. He is , as already said ,a rotten marker but he will keep on hunting for the dummy. He is also prepared to be handled and has now done an easy blind or two. He will go about 150 yards for a seek back retrieve , he might even go further ,I haven't tried. He will do memory retrieves from water with me completely out of sight to him and him to me for a distance of at least 30 -40 yards and the dummy comes right back to me with no drops. He does still tend to try to side slip me with a dummy but I can sort that - I think.

Up to present I have tried him on cold hen pheasant, cold rabbit and on one freshly shot and still very warm street pigeon - all were easily retrieved by him in a non- fuss manner. Up to present this wee dog has been a delight to train.

With enough of the right kind of work I think Charlie would win trials - I'll need to stop him pointing first though ! Embarassed

Bill T.

windem bang · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject:

A last minute change of plans gave me he opportunity to take Buck out to The Triangle this afternoon. For once it wasn't raining and it wasn't too muggy either.

Buck hasn't been getting out for as much running as he is used to and I noticed a deterioration in his running abilities today.

A West Highland White chose to attack him today . It left its owner well behind to do so and paid no attention whatsoever to him when he tried to call it back. Buck was surprised by this out of the blue attack to begin with but with his huge size and strength advantage he easily got on top of the terrier. I hate to see a dog get hurt so I pulled Buck off. In the process he got bitten at the base of one ear. I had a good one handed grip on the terriers scruff and I lifted it a bit off the ground and shook the hell out of it until it had had enough. Its owner put a lead on it as I held it and took it away saying that I had been too rough !

Partway through our hunt we turned a corner almost straight back into the same off leash dog ! It ran right at us and I began roaring at it , I was going to boot it right over the hedgeline and I said so to the completely inneffectual owner when he got there ! Buck meanwhile thought I must be roaring at him and hid behind my legs !

That really did get me angry but not at Buck. I told the man that if that ever happened again I'd let my dog tear his to bits while I did the same to him ! I very much doubt my ability to do that but he didn't , he bogged off smartish !

We had a shorter than usual hunt, an awful lot of the ground is just unusable at this time of year. Buck was more out of my sight in the high grass fields than in it. He vanished over the top of a rise near the pond . I couldn't see him at all when I got there. After blowing the recall a couple of times he appeared right beside me. I cast him off to hunt once more and he at once returned the way he'd came from. I lost him to view just 10 yards away among some flooded reeds. Knowing he was in there but not moving I told him to flush . The reeds heaved and out flew a Waterhen heading towards the pond. All was still in there, Buck was not chasing. I suspected there might be chicks about somewhere I and called Buck to heel and left the area.

As we came near to the end of a rabbit nibbled area with some shorter grass I fired a shot from the "bang dummy" then threw it as he passed me 20 -30 feet away. He sat at once and I sent him for the dummy. I repeated this with the same result a few moments later. He was completely steady.

I tried again a few moments later but this time fired as he was moving away from me 40 -45 yards away. He sat at once with no added commands of any kind from me. I found this very pleasing because I do not do nearly enough sitting to shot training with Buck.

About 60 yards from the end of one very heavily overgrown field I made a mistake and instead of just dropping a dummy for a seekback retrieve I waited till Buck was hunting a distance off and threw it 10 yards from the path I was battering through the grass. This turned the retrieve into a blind. In terms of distance not a difficult blind at all , only 40 -50 yards ,in terms of difficulty - very - very difficult.

At its lowest height the grasses and weeds were up to my thighs, at their highest they probably touched my chin ! Buck was invisible from just feet away. If I had left the dummy where I'd walked all would have been well , he went back through the jungle I'd trampled. Only moving grass fronds gave any clue to his whereabouts and I misjudged when to call "There !" to have him hold his ground and hunt it. He overshot, heading away back out into the field along the route I'd walked. I caught a glimpse of him 30 yards past the dummy and recalled him into the dummies area. Still I could not see him to handle him and I had just decided to walk out there to help when his head and neck popped up in a very alert manner and after looking around to get his bearings he spotted me. I hadn't known there was a higher mound in there for him to see me from but I was pleased it was there. I handled him and off he went but I could see by the tops of the grasses that he was still not in the dummies area.

Feeling very frustrated by this I made another mistake, I blew the stop whistle. Even as I blew it I was kicking myself ! I still would not be able to handle him !!! Bugger me ! He'd found another high spot ! Up popped his head and neck again ! I was just congratulating myself on having such an intelligent height seeking dog when I realised I could also see his front shoulders - and his front paws. The bugger was standing on his hind legs to see me ! There was no high ground out there. In that manner I handled him into the fall area and he got the dummy ! I was really pleased with him and tried to tell him so but he took off hunting up the hedgeline. Rolling Eyes

I followed him up it and he swung out into the field ,now obviously tracking. I suspected that this would be the cock fezzie that hangs around that field . Still tracking hard he went through the hedge at the fields far end and I stop whistled him . He was geting out of gun range if I'd had a gun. I reached him as he stood on his line then sent him on . Out in the next field of overgrown grass something moved - roedeer. We worked up onto them and got within 30 to 40 yards before they took off. Buck did not see them over the grass tops but his whole attitude told me he knew they were running.

Out of curiousity I sent him in . He ran out to where they'd ran from then turned sharp right onto their tracks following at a very fast pace. I'd seen enough , he is still too interested in deer. I whistle recalled him and he came back at once.

Not far from my car the Westie came back into view ! This time its owner hurriedly leashed it. I was very annoyed to see that Buck went behind my legs. My efforts to save that bloody little dog a bad chewing have backfired on me. Buck thinks I am angry at him if the other dog is aggressive ! Why does this happen to Buck ? It would be hard to find a more easy going dog in the whole country !

Bill T.

kiwi · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:10 am Post subject:

interesting about bucks coming of age bill in the sticking up for himself front, but i would be stomping down hard on him myself, a few too many incidents of it in such a short time will teach him not to be so easy going with any male dogs.

windem bang · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:40 am Post subject:

Hi Kiwi, that is what worries me too. He never has been in any way aggressive but just how much will he take ? I'm not sure that stamping down hard on Buck would do any good, it isn't him that is going up to other dogs - they are coming to him. If I start grumbling at him as soon as he looks at another dog it could have completely the opposite effect and make him more "on his toes."

At present if the other dog wants to play Buck is very happy to play. I would rather that was allowed to happen than tighten up too much on my control and maybe have him think every approaching dog is an enemy.

I detest aggressive dogs I will be very saddened if Buck is turned into one.

Bill T.