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josie · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject:

I think these fences are worse than ecollars because you can't be in control of the associations the dog is making - dog sees another animal or a child or a man on the other side of the fence and runs towards that person/animal and then gets a shock. Dog then thinks the dog/animal/child caused the shock and can become fear aggressive towards dog/animal/child.

At least if someone is using an ecollar they are completely in control of the training, not just leaving it up to some system of sensors!

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lagopuslagopus · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject:

I quite agree. I wonder why these haven't been banned already then in Wales, like the collars have.

josie · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject:

Are ecollars banned in Wales??
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lagopuslagopus · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject:

I'm not so sure now Josie. I was told they had been but I've just been looking for proof and haven't found any yet.

BritAnnie · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:29 am Post subject:

I've just been thinking about these things - Brittanys tend to rush around at speed, so wouldn't they just rush through the pain or noise whichever it is they use?
Annie
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Helen S · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:20 am Post subject:

We have an Innotek e.fence here and it is the best solution to our situation.

The system involves a boundary wire which sends an electronic signal to the collar. When the dog approaches the boundary wire the collar beeps, (you can adjust the proximity to the wire that this happens) you train the dog on the lead to move away from the boundary, inwards, when the beep sounds using a clearly described programme over ten days or more. You are instructed to make the boundary visible in any gateways or open areas initially by laying a tape or having flags that the dog can easily see. During this process you never let the dog loose near the boundary without being present with the collar. Once the dog knows where the boundary is (some days later), you put the collar on the dog and let it loose but supervised. The dog only gets a shock if it ignores the beep and/or continues to approach the boundary. The shock will ramp up if the dog continues toward the boundary - this is what prevents the dog from running through the signal.

Obviously the dog will at some point test the boundary but if it is done under controlled conditions when you are present with an outside distraction ie you don't go through the boundary yourself and call the dog to you; the dog should understand.

I trained Liesel right from the beginning that she could walk safely at heel through the back gate out of the garden with me. I never take her out through the main entrance, if I need her out there I take her out of the back gate and walk around, or I could put her in the car. If I walk out of the main entrance I always say "Stay", this has worked to reinforce "Stay", she never tried to follow me out because she already knew what "Stay" meant.

As you are advised not to try to train puppies to the system until they are over six months, they should already be socialised and should not associate people with getting a shock on the boundary. I can see that it could conceivably cause a dog to be more territorial but would this not also be the case with a high fence? And certainly in my experience dogs that are left tied up can be extremely defensive.

I found this system to be easy to install, reliable and damn near foolproof (I am no technician!). It works well for us and allows my dog a large playground, Liesel can have complete freedom within the garden area and my mind is at rest that she will not venture out onto the road. I may add that I do not leave Liesel loose when I am not around, either working out of earshot or away from home. I would not put her in the situation where she may feel responsible for guarding the premises alone from an innocent caller.

Helen S

lagopuslagopus · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:51 am Post subject:

Hi Helen,

That was a good write-up. I think I have read previously that you use the e-collars anyway (sorry if I'm wrong) and I can't see much difference between the two other than as Josie said the handler has conrol over one and not the other. I only asked the question in the first place as it seemed that people who might be against the collar didn't seem to mind the fence and I just wondered why.

josie · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:09 am Post subject:

I'd still never use one - I've also heard of dogs running through the fence chasing a rabbit or a cat and running through the shock because they were hyped up and the pain didn't register, as they were so aroused. Then they are unable to return home because they can't get back in again.

I think dogs can still make the wrong connections between things after they are 6 months old.

Then there's also the issue that a dog might not be able to get out, but neighbourhood dogs, cats, strangers and anything not wearing a collar can get in! And then your dog is trapped there with them.

Kids can tease the dog, chuck things at it, because they can see it clearly and there's no fence.

Etc, etc!
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BenB · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:39 am Post subject:

Strewth - I was only coming up with some ideas to help this dog.

Discuss electronic collars on a diferent thread maybe??? and come up with some suggestions rather than shooting down other peoples?

Sad

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tashap · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 688 **Breed:**

its good that you did training to introduce the fence so few do they see it as a quick fix for lazyitus when it comes to training their dog.

I can see the benefits of having a fence system especially in open spaces but having seen the worst case senerio it has coloured my view of them. I suppose like everything its a case of a good tool in the wrong hands.