What does the typical training day provide for you Josie ?? Are they similar to the days that I attend ??
The recent Brittany Club one went a bit like this..
morning:retrieving, heelwork, hunting, in the afternoon simple and more difficult water retrieves.
Each topic area had a trainer who talked through the task. Each dog then had a go and the handler received feed back and suggestions as they went along. Everyone in the group was within earshot so they could have heard all but highlights or special bits were repeated back to the group by the trainer.
If a dog could not achieve the original task a modification was developed so it succeeded at that before the next person had a go.
At the end there was a 'wash up' in a local pub.
I came away with the dog having taken some great steps forward - on a scale of 1 - 10 i think it scored 11 _________________ Guy; Ellie Topaz Catja. http://www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
I have been going to a Lab/spaniel trainer for the last few weeks(Stuart in Allez's diary). My pal Sue also goes with her Lab, which is fairly well trained but has developed a few bad habits and has also had a few months off having pups. There is also usually a Springer who also needs additional training, so we have other dogs around for Allez and distractions of dummies being thrown for the others. Stuart was worried that I wasn't getting enough out of the sessions for Allez but I feel I am benefiting more than the others since as well as his own training for steadiness to dummies and to shot, off lead heel work, retrieving seens and unseens and straight line retrieving, I can see what the future stepos have to be on the retriving side. I know he can hunt, I know he can point, I need him to stop when I tell him and when a bird flushes or a gun goes off. I'm a bit worried that the GSP group might spoil what I'm getting - what do you think, Barry - or anyone else?
Annie
ps another BOB and shortlisted in the Group at Dundee - Dual purposity, I rather think _________________ Aberdon HPR's. Good-looking AND Intelligent.
I've never met Stuart Annie but it sounds to me as if he's doing a good job. Whatever else you dedide to do I would keep going to him.
Guy - The classes you go to sound good and well balanced to me. It is very interesting to me to hear how other training groups work. So much depends on the trainer(s) and his personal preferences for training dogs and maybe just as important for training people.
Does anyone know how to get in touch with Guy Wallace??? I had his card somewhere and can't for the life of me find it. I'm going off to germany and want to make sure that bonnies deer training is up to scratch. _________________ These are my personal opinions and do not represent in any way the views of the WCGB.
I'm looking for a training partner/partners local to me here in Swindon. I have attended training classes for the last three years with my bitch, Anna but I loose focus when things go wrong and it's a long time to waite (monthly) to correct problems when you dont even know how it happend in the first place.
Local good friends who are not "into" my interest dont know what is needed to help me. And knowlegable friends that bend over backwards to help live so far away, I usually end up telling my experiences over the phone and receive good advice for the next time it happens (thanks Mike).
Still, if anyone out there feels they can help without impeading on their own training time i would be very interested to join you.
Anna is a very keen and capable three years and two thirds old and loves all aspects of H.P.R work. Is relatively obedient- unless she sees deer AND gets extremely "hot" with gunshot in the field on past shoot days/years, but has always done the job even if it was in her own way-I think I frustrate her because I fail to read her body language and she gets fed up with me, but I enjoy "it" too much to pass her on to a more experienced handler- I would love to Field Trial her and i'm sure gonna keep trying!
I haven't been here for a long time, just read this thread.
I have trained my weim a lot with GSPs and also with setters. I think that has been a huge benefit because at least with the setters here in Finland, they do a lot of paired hunting. The first time my weim got absolutely crazy and just ran behind the setter he was let loose with. He was barking like hell and did not have a clue what to do. But after some time he started working too, and anyway the old english setter lady did not take any notice of him The good thing was that he could get near the setter when she had a scent and he got some idea why they were there. Also he learned to run like hell on the fields. He is searching as good as GSPs on the field, no doubt about that.
My weim has a problem in the forest though, and we are hunting a lot in the forest up here in the north. He gets anxious when there is too much underground vegetation and his search get too narrow. I have been thinking that this might be overcome if he just gets enough contacts with game (as he does in the fields) but we have had two years of downhill with forest bird numbers dropping really drastically. This is due to some disease that killed a lot of birds a few years ago and now the come back has been really slow due to cold spring weather. So my weim has not had very much contact with game in forests and therefore he is not doing very well there. I still hope to get him going there but I think there is only one medicine for that - to hunt and to hope
I am not really experienced in training weims but I first put in the break and now I am letting the monster loose - knowing that the break will function if needed. With this I mean that I did some really tough obedience training with my weim when he was young. But I only taught him the stuff he would need, no more, no less. So he has to stop directly on command and he needs to come when called at. That's all.
Yes, and I had to do some retrieving training of course.
Now when I see that he sometimes go out of drive (especially after hunting in the forest) I just let him go loose on the fields. I don't care that he is doing some piggy things, the main goal is to get back the enthusiasm. It usually works very well and because I know that the break is working, I can always stop him when I think he have had enough fun.
I think there is only one way to get the right drive into a weim - hunt for real, shoot them birds and let them have a taste of them.
I think chiendog is quite right about a lot of things. Also here in Finland people always says that weims are different in hunting abilities. Still, having seen my own dog at his best and a few other even more excellent ones here in Finland, I think that is BS. It's all about breeding a good hunting weim, nothing else. We have not many weims here in Finland but we already see a trend towards people buying weims only for show and companion. On the other hand we have a few very passionate hunting breeders so weims will probably split in two here.
I also agree with windem bang that weims very often go with the head low down while searching. That is why tracking should be avoided, at least in young dogs.
Over all, I think obedience training is the very foundation for good hunting but the only way of then getting a good hunting dog is to hunt.
I think there is only one way to get the right drive into a weim - hunt for real, shoot them birds and let them have a taste of them.
I think I will get a tatoo with the above quote on my a....
Emma, you hit the nail on the head! And not only does it apply to weims...it applies to all hunting dogs. The number one, two and three priorities of all hunting dogs, no matter the breed, no matter the game is to HUNT with them.
To illustrate, have a look at a video I just posted to my new YouTube channel. It features (at the beginning) a weim that is not even 6 months old. So far the only "training" I have done with him is convincing him not to eat every pair of socks I own. Yet he has been in the field, almost every day in two Canadian provinces and two American States hunting wild birds since the beginning of September. He is doing very, very, very well. I have shot ruffed grouse and sharptail grouse, snipe, pheasants and grey partridges over his points...and I have yet to teach him to sit or stay.
Is he perfect? No.
Is he a fully qualified hunting dog? No.
Does he have as much passion for the hunt as I do. YES!!!
Henri is a HUNTING dog. I train him in the same way I train all my dogs. I hunt. And I hunt some more. And he and I will hunt until we can hunt no more. Oh, and when you watch the video, take note of Henri's head...he holds if VERY high.
If I could offer you one piece of advise it would be to take your dog as often as possible to the field and forest, let him run and hunt.... and keep your mouth shut the entire time. Hunting is NOT taught. It is woven in the genetic fibres of your dog. Your job is to offer your dog the opportunity to develop its natural ability and to stay out of its way as truly wild gamebirds teach it all the lessons he will ever need.
And if there is not enough room or birds or places to hunt in Finland, bring him to Canada. We have plenty!
P.S. the other dogs in the video are my 9 year old Weim "Souris" and my wife's 5 year old Pont Audemer Spaniel "Uma". The sum total of their training has been me taking them out to HUNT as much as I can. I am sure that some folks that view the videos will find fault with the finer points of their performances, but I can assure you that NO ONE, if they were to see them in the field, would find any lack of desire or hunting ability in them.
The advice I was given was to get her out hunting, didn't matter what it was species wise just get her finding things. To raise the nose only work on stubble, heather or crop fields or areas where there is long grass so that the nose can't go on the ground it has to be lifted.
The main mistake I made with her is that most of our actually hunting work was done in woodland as part of a beating team or dogging in so we failed miserably when it came to open fields. I started to rectify that this season but now I'm off my feet it will have to wait till next year.
The classes Josie, Mike and I started off in are aimed primarily at pet owners who own a weimaraner and want to do an activity with some training involved, they are not aimed at competition level, although you can progress to this. I think they make good introductions to working and after that it is up to you to pursue more competitive training or to take up shooting as a sport. _________________ These are my personal opinions and do not represent in any way the views of the WCGB.
chiendog: great video! Love the intensity in the working, that's how they should look.
I always forget that your dogs don't flush! Here dogs must search, point, flush on command, stop on command (during which the bird is shot) and then wait until it is allowed to retrieve.
Some dogs have a lousy flush or avanceŽas we call it and usually this is taken into consideration when selecting dogs for breeding here.
This autumn I will still go to Sweden for one weekend to hunt in the forests and see if I can get my dog to move better. I have got some nice advice from many people and know I am anxious to find out if we can improve
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The good thing was that he could get near the setter when she had a scent and he got some idea why they were there. Also he learned to run like hell on the fields. He is searching as good as GSPs on the field, no doubt about that.
