workinghprs.myfastforum.org

josie · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject:

But surely, if we're reading this correctly and you can actually have FTs and WTs with only 1 breed and have them KC reg, they cannot count towards titles??

What's to stop (for eg) the WCGB running Weim-only trials, someone winning 2 Weim-only trials and then making up a FtCh Weimaraner which has only ever competed against other Weimaraners??

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Mike · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject:

Jo,
I didn't write the rules, I am just copying them from the book Smile

But
a) GWT don't count towards any titles anyway.
b) You would probably struggle to fill a stake with just weims anyway (you'd need at least 10 runners at open level)
c) Would the judges be willing to place the dogs first anyway? Even if they have only been looking at one breed all day hopefully they would have a clear idea of what level of performance they require before awarding a first

I am not saying for sure that I am right about this, but the rules in the book seem clear? Maybe i've missed something?
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josie · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject:

Well, entry into Open FTs is "open to all dogs of a specified breed or breeds", so if we assume this is right and really wanted a Weim-only FT, we could have any 10 Weims even if they haven't won out of previous classes.

As for c, some judges might want to promote a breed's working abilities, esp if they are sympathetic to the breed, feel it has fallen into show hands etc, and see putting it up in a trial as promoting that side of things.

I'm sure judges would have an idea of what level of performance they'd want before giving a first, but at the same time it is a competition and that means the dogs are competing against each other, not a standard. And if the competition is not very good and a dog has completed some sort of hunt-point-retrieve-water...

I believe there are some cocker only spaniel FTs...?
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josie · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject:

I think the thing which might have been overlooked is that under "Stakes" it says:

2.b. "Stakes may be run for any of the four Sub-Groups of Gundogs recognised by the Kennel Club...

c. The four Sub-Groups are as follows:

1. Retrievers and Irish Water Spaniels
2. Sporting Spaniels other than Irish Water Spaniels
3. Pointers and Setters
4. Breeds which Hunt, Point and Retrieve."

I'd read that as meaning that a WT or FT has to be for one of these 4 groups and can't discriminate further...?

Not sure what that means about cocker-only spaniel trials though. Confused

Ok, I'll email the KC and see what they say Shocked

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munstyman · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject:

chiendog · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 116 **Breed:**

[quote="munstyman"]

windem bang · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:26 am Post subject:

Hi Peter,

So Britains free breeding policy is beginning to work to the possible detriment of the L.M.? It has certainly worked to the detriment of several other gundog breeds. Anyone with any eyesight left can see that at a show.

If it's not putting your neck in a noose ,can you tell me, would the L.M.C. of its own volition give serious consideration to a controlled breeding programme? If it would what would the likely criteria be for a dog to be bred from ?

I will fully understand if you feel you cannot answer these questions !

The old saying of if you don't use it, you will lose it , I'm sorry to say very much applies to gundogs. I hope you can find more people who want to use it.

Bill T.

windem bang · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:50 am Post subject:

Hi Chiendog,

I have found your posts invariably interesting. In Canada is it the case that H.D. has been virtually eradicated in the L.M.? If not what is the hip score below which dogs are allowed to be bred from ? Are all dogs bred from giving 0/0 hip scores?

I envy your system over there of breeding from work proven dogs! I'll maybe have to move to Canada, my sister already has!

Thanks again for the interesting posts.

Bill T.

chiendog · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 116 **Breed:**

josie · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:50 am Post subject:

Well, here is the answer from the KC (v prompt, I must say, I only emailed last night!):

"Hi Joanna

If a club wanted to run a breed-restricted stake ie for Weimaraners it
would have to apply to the Kennel Club for permission to do so and I
must say that it is very unlikely that such permission would be granted.

Secondly, no a dog could not be made up to be a FTCh by winning 2
breed-restricted stakes. It would also have to win an Open Stake open
to all HPR breeds.

Hope this is helpful."
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