Its as clear as mud if you need permission to show a legally docked dog, and from what I have read, the KC advice on the web site is fundamentally contradicted by the KC F regs.
The KC publicity info says nothing about requiring prior premission to show for dogs docked prior to AWB, or for those legally docked after AWB. Information simply states dogs docked pre AWB can be exibited everywhere regardless of entry fees for the public, and for those docked after AWB,they can be shown at events where public are not charged for entrance. I have called the in KC in Feburary and the advice I was given verbally was that I did not need prior permission to show.
However, the problem as I see it is with the newly revised F regulations, which have been altered to removed the clause which previously exempted Docking as an operation that altered the natural conformation of the dog . As a result the F regs currently read to the effect that ANY dog, regardless of when it was docked, would need proir permission to show as they have had an opperation that has altered the natural conformation of the dog !!!!!! To add to the confusion some schedules have the old F regs printed and NOT the current ones -- schedules from Higham have old regs but Fosse have the new ones !!!
Confused .. I certainly am !! As a result I applied for permission to show for my puppy in April and recieved a letter back within a week. I have also raised the question re the F regs with the KC and asked for clarification but as yet I have had no response ?
I have however subsequently applied for permission to show on a pup I had returned to me and I have recieved nothing from the KC for her - my first letter was sent in May and I re-sent the letter again in June. Perhaps they are looking into the conflict betwen published advice and current F regs and are therefore not dealing with requests for pemission to show legally docked pups ??? I just wish they would let me know whats happening .. can I show this puppy or not ?????
In fact it would also be nice to have clarification on my 7yr old girl in veteran as I certainly haven't applied for permission to show her .. she won at our breed club show (the KC has issued her CC last week) and is entered at National Gundog but when reading the F regs as they stand she probably shouldn't be shown at all as I don't have permission !!!!!
Good grief - I didn't know all this had raised its hairy head again. I suppose that means I can't show Hester(GWP) and Freckles (Brit) either as they've both been docked. They are both Vetarans too and I don't want to stop showing them. Maybe everyone on here with dogs docked pre AWB should send in an application for Permission to show a docked dog and force the issue. If the KC get flooded with applications they'd maybe throw a wobbly and maybe take a decision?
Anyone up for it? _________________ Aberdon HPR's. Good-looking AND Intelligent.
I applied for Permission To Show for ALL my pups in the litter that way if in future any of them wanted to show they can do
I am NOT applying for PtS for any of my dogs docked before 6 April 2007 & having spoken to the KC I don't need to either _________________ Claire Minstergate Weimaraners
when did you apply for permission to show ?? I had no problem getting a response in April but have had nothing back for the other pup and is driving me crazy !!!
I am still not sure if permission to show is needed, the KC told me I didn't need permission for the pups as they were legally docked BUT when I wrote (after reading the new F regs) they have issued a permission letter. If you don't need permission WHY are the processing permission requestes at all ???
As for the older dogs - I am still showing them and have not written for permission. However if you read the new F regs there is now no exemption for the shortening of dogs tails in customarily docked breeds regardless of when they were docked as Sub-section 3 (c) has been removed.
As I see this ANY dog with a docked tail is in contravention of the F regs - Preparation of Dogs for Exhibition, unless it has prior permission to show. Perhaps NOT what the KC intended (especially as it is direct contradiction to the published advice) BUT that is how they are written. When we enter shows we all have to sign the declaration that startes we agree to submit to and be bound by the KC rules and Regs but my older docked dogs could be seen to be in breach of F reg subsection 3 a
3. No act or operation which alters the natural conformation of the dog or any part there of may be performed except:
a) operations certified to the staisfaction of the General Committee
Karen
I asked the KC to clarify this issue but mentioned previously I have had no response as yet .. should probably start to chase up an answer. _________________ Karen
Gamebourne GSP's
I suppose that means I can't show Hester(GWP) and Freckles (Brit)
They're going to have fun with Brittanys aren't they, trying to decide which have been docked and which haven't. _________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
I applied for PtS March/April this year & as far as I know they were all granted. They were sent back to the owners not me.
I would chase up Karen....have you tried speaking to Gary Johnson?
Hi
Got my permission for Purdy in under one week back in April but still nothing for Darcey after 2months !! Will start chasing the letter for Darcey next week .. off to your end of the world for a long weekend in the caravan in about 30mins
What do you make of the new F regs Weima ?? Am I reading them wrong ?? As they read I cannot see where any docked dog is exempted from prior permission to show ...
Whilst I appreciate that you are saying that the rules have been changed in the F regs, this advie was taken from the KC website and apparently updated yesterday.
Quote:
Q & A FOR JUDGES
I am a Judge of a traditionally docked breed. What am I supposed to do if I suspect that a dog before me has been docked illegally and should not therefore be shown? You should simply judge the dogs before you and should not become involved in any disputes or otherwise regarding whether or not a dog has been docked either legally or illegally. This is a matter for the relevant authorities to deal with.
Q & A FOR SHOW ORGANISERS
As a show secretary of a show in England or Wales which charges the public for admission, am I required to deal with a complaint that a dog docked after the law changed, is being exhibited?
No. In the event of an allegation of contravention of the law (either illegal docking or the illegal showing of dogs) the complainant should be advised to refer the matter to the relevant authorities. In normal circumstances, the Show Society or the Kennel Club should only take action to correct the situation if a successful prosecution has been brought against the alleged offender. This advice may require to be reviewed if a body of case law is eventually established.
It would in the meantime be sensible for Show Societies to note any such complaints in the Show Incident Book in case they are asked to provide information on the matter to the authorities at a future date.
The clear intent would seem quite clear that the kc have no intention of enfrocing the docking ban even if you dog is being illegally shown (unless the relevant authorities succesfully prosecute you, which would obviously be impossible IF it is legally docked and shown). Are people worried that they will have awads removed without a PtS?
Whilst I appreciate that you are saying that the rules have been changed in the F regs, this advie was taken from the KC website and apparently updated yesterday.
Quote:
Q & A FOR JUDGES
I am a Judge of a traditionally docked breed. What am I supposed to do if I suspect that a dog before me has been docked illegally and should not therefore be shown? You should simply judge the dogs before you and should not become involved in any disputes or otherwise regarding whether or not a dog has been docked either legally or illegally. This is a matter for the relevant authorities to deal with.
Q & A FOR SHOW ORGANISERS
As a show secretary of a show in England or Wales which charges the public for admission, am I required to deal with a complaint that a dog docked after the law changed, is being exhibited?
No. In the event of an allegation of contravention of the law (either illegal docking or the illegal showing of dogs) the complainant should be advised to refer the matter to the relevant authorities. In normal circumstances, the Show Society or the Kennel Club should only take action to correct the situation if a successful prosecution has been brought against the alleged offender. This advice may require to be reviewed if a body of case law is eventually established.
It would in the meantime be sensible for Show Societies to note any such complaints in the Show Incident Book in case they are asked to provide information on the matter to the authorities at a future date.
The clear intent would seem quite clear that the kc have no intention of enfrocing the docking ban even if you dog is being illegally shown (unless the relevant authorities succesfully prosecute you, which would obviously be impossible IF it is legally docked and shown). Are people worried that they will have awads removed without a PtS?
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