workinghprs.myfastforum.org

althrey · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:31 am Post subject:

kiwi, what dont you like about HPR's being in the beating line?
i am new to HPR's but i intend to use my Wire Vizsla mainly in the beating line. though i do have so qualms about their use for beating myself, i'd like to know what your are.

A

windem bang · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:36 am Post subject:

In the U.K. there's not a lot of wild boar hunting so if you really want to use an H.P.R. to work a beating line or go picking up with , good luck to you ! I personally don't like using H.P.R.'s as beating dogs, my usual hunting practices and the needs of the beating line do not often coincide. In short my dogs are a pain in the nether regions in a beating line! Laughing

Bill T.

windem bang · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:58 am Post subject:

A --- We have crossposted. I.M.O. a properly trained ,hard going type of H.P.R. is not suitable for the beating line. I have done beating with spaniels, with labs and with Brittanies and G.S.P.'s -- I've even done it with a border collie. I am not breed blind but a hard going pointing dog does not belong in a beating line. It will either get itself or you or both of you into trouble or it will be less than it could be as a hunting dog.

A dog not hunting the wind properly is less noticable at spaniel/ lab distances that occur in beating lines. Training a pointing dog to work contrary to the wind is not a clever idea. If it does that outwith the beating line it will fail to point and could put birds up out of range. i If the birds are still in range as the dog uses the wind not at all or improperly then you have taught your H.P.R. to be a spaniel or a labrador and not a very good one at that !

What you want is not impossible but it does have drawbacks, I have only described a few of them.
Good luck.

Bill T.

kiwi · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:58 am Post subject:

beating lines and picking up to me is a job for spaniels and labs, your country leads the world in those breeds.
just my own thoughts nothing more, i have read a few times of how a hpr breed didn't cut it as a beating dog or picking up dog on a shoot and that experience was branded to the breed as a whole.

kiwi · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:04 am Post subject:

sorry bill, you have written exactly the same as what i did but then decided not too and deleted it.....i agree with you for what it's worth

Bareve · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:22 am Post subject:

Hi there

I agree with what everything that has been said on here already with regards to the breed and their trainability Laughing

There are plenty of pups for sale and planned so you are doing the right thing about not rushing in and speaking to breeders to establish what their plans are and to see if they have the experience to help you should you meet any training problems. Most reputable breeders do the health checks so you should be able to find a puppy from tested parents.

With regards to establishing working ability - it is a good idea to ask to see the mother (and hopefully father) working but not just on retrieving tasks you need to also see how they react on meeting game (it's not much fun seeing them unsteady and watching them disappear over the horizon) and how biddable they seem to be.

As for beating and picking up with them - we've sold puppies before to people wanting to use them in the beating line and they have geared their training accordingly - letting them hunt the wind naturally but keeping them closer than you would normally want them to be ranging. One of our bitches is such a slug she is a doddle to work in the beating line whereas the likes of our Freddy stock they would be impossible as they range far too far for a beating line.

It also depends very much on your keeper as the one on the shoot I go to is very understanding with our HPR's and when we are in the open he wants us to keep them close but when we go into the wood he doesn't care how far forward they range.

As for picking up - once you have established their retrieving skills (I've found that the majority prefer to hunt than to retrieve) they are very good and much easier to set them onto a runner and leave them to it compared to Labs.

As for the puppy being docked - the "working" litters will be docked as they can provide the necessary paperwork. However despite the dual purpose kennels also being able to provide the paperwork required we still want to show our dogs so we are being forced into leaving tails on. Plus of course it is illegal to dock in Scotland so any Scottish puppies will also have full tails.

Normally when we have a working enquiry we always put them onto Rory Major who is the only person ever to achieve F/T Champion status in our breed and he's done it twice. His kennel name is Bryantscroft and his website will come up if searched in a search engine.

HTH
_________________
Sharon Pinkerton
www.bareve.com
UK's Undisputed Top GWP Kennel
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not a named recipient please ensure that this e-mail is deleted and not copied or disclosed to anyone else.

elptb · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:02 am Post subject:

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for the reply, I have my eye on one particular kennel which not only screens its dogs for HD & vWB, ensures tails are docked, and breeds from good working stock (pedigrees including a few FTCH) but one of the breeders is a full-time gamekeeper.
I have been in touch with them since February and have just emailed them asking what their stance is on this tricky topic!
Hopefully they too will have some valuable input, as having a background in keepering I would have thought they must have experienced both sides of it.

I can see now how taking a HPR in the beating line could cause problems with both the training of the dog and also the drive itself, but also the shoot that I beat on is small and managed well enough to hopefully make it easy for me to keep a good distance away from other dogs when beating. Also the other dogs are kept under better control than at some other shoots anyway!

Thanks for the refence to the Bryantscroft kennel, I shall follow that up in the morning.

E

Helen · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:42 am Post subject:

Welcome to the board E. I currently have 2 gwp's. I have taken one in the beating line but only purely for experience of a shoot day. We also have springers who we use for beating. I do think springers excel at beating.

However, if you are keen to have a gwp, I'm sure you can gear the training towards it, as well as for rough shooting. The shoot you go to, does sound ok for a hpr. One of my main worries about beating with a hpr on a shoot where the dogs are mainly spaniels and labs, is that they will steal the point. I've seen it happen on numberous ocasions when I've seen hpr's in a beating line and eventually, that dog stopped pointing altogether - not good when you are wanting a pointing dog to shoot over.

Good luck in your search. (I thought there were only 2 FTCH gwp's in this country?)

Helen

elptb · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject:

Hi Helen,
thanks for the welcome Very Happy

The FTCH in the pedigrees are a few generations back along the line, but hey, its something! Laughing

E

Lynn · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: gwp pedigree

Could the pedigree possibly have FTW in it as apposed to FTCH - there could be several of those?