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langhaar · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:16 am Post subject:

So what are the differences in American , continental and English Weimaraners ?

tashap · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 688 **Breed:**

temperment, conformation, hunting ability, local law on docking, colour.

Most people that have a weimaraner and are an enthusiast will be able to point out a dog that has a look derived from a specific area because they have bred for different qualities.

langhaar · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject:

These are all controlled by environment, not by the addition of another breeds bloodline, unless the blue dilution involves another breed?

Athought there may be differences they still remain weimaraners

Click to see full size image

The breeders of these labs say no Weimaraner blood has been added but looking at a picture of the parents and grandparents, one of the latter was a weimaraner.

Mike · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject:

To be fair you could be describing at least four distinct "types" the US Weim is pretty much split show / field with the former being over angulated, with ridiculous chests (I read somewhere that a show judge thought that the keel chests where apparently required for breaking the ice whilst retrieving ducks from frozen water, Weims are famous for doing this aren't they Rolling Eyes

) and far too big. (MASSIVE generalisation I know! There are even in the US those that both show and field test their dogs) The US field Weims are smaller (some FT dogs may be a little too small but considering what is expected of them I am not surprised it has ended up that way), much more moderate, closer to the German Weim than the US show Weim is. I am led to believe there is a significant difference in temprement between US field bred Weims and the German dogs. Pace, range and style are also supposed to be quiet different. I must qualify that as far as I know I have never seen either work first hand, although I have seen a lot of video footage of US field bred Weims. And read some about the German dogs but not seen them work but had lengthy discussions with those that have. I guess the closest I have come to a German dogs would be one of Suzi's German sired and tested dogs?

The continental Weim is probably closest of the lot to the German (obviously many are near descendents or indeed German dogs) but the European show scene does appear to be heavily influenced by US show bred / US show dogs (or at least that is my impression from the Euroweims board, I could be wrong) I would assume however that their must be some working ability amongst the champions as I believe under FCI rules you need a field qualification to obtain your title? I think the French Weimar is possibly a canidate for a further type with people openly admitting out crosses to other breeds have occured. (from memory)

As for the British Weimaraner, well it is what you've seen with your own eyes, very diverse and field ability ranges from non-existant (and painful to watch) to a few very good dogs. Type is all over the place, which may be good for the long term future of the breed (I am thinking of breed diversity) I think it is fair to say there isn't really much of a split in the show and working lines in the UK yet, many of the usual suspects holding the lead at a FT will also be found in the show ring (and a suprising number of the show people are also to be found at field training days etc. even if they aren't at FT's. I must admit I am continually suprised to find out that some people I had assumed where show breeders only actually work their own dogs picking up for example (obviously they are a minority but I still do get surprised)

Again the above is just my opinion and tends to change the more I see and read. I think the problem with trying to generalise about a breed with numbers as high as the Weimaraner is that they aren't " cookie cutter" dogs and if you look hard enough you can pretty much find what you want, from Allyson's Long hair Twiggy to the Regen Weims in America (some of those dogs have 10's of titles and are champions in the field, in the show ring and obedience!) to the dogs owned by foresters living in Weimar, somewhere in our breed is one to suit. I personally feel this diversity isn't necessarily a bad thing (although the number of Weims produced each year doesn't exactly fill me with joy...) but I suspect that if you told the Nobles of the Weimar republic where and how popular their dogs would be early in the 21st century they would have drowned the lot.
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Mike · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject:

BritAnnie · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject:

I must admit these blue labs are quite attractive. Wink

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langhaar · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject:

I will have to take your opinions because I have no experience of judging the breed in the UK or abroad.

As for mutation in labs this seems to happen only in America. Laughing

The orange yellow in Longhairs is not caused by mutation but the introduction of homzygous ee into the breed. This could have a catastrophic effect. I breed to original breed type, that is my choice. Others want to specifically alter it for winning in competition where they run against setters and pointers. Instead of a long term breeding programme which allows changes in height, pace, speed, head carriage, conformation etc as they have done with weimaraners worldwide, some breeders wanted faster results by adding an influx of genes outside of the breed.

If that is their choice, no problem, but can they be true GLP's ?

Bareve · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:

[quote="Bareve"]

BritAnnie · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject:

So the one I posted a photo of that I saw in Norway must have been descended from the original strain. It looked really strange to me considering what I am used to in the UK. I remember makig a remark to my friend, Cecilie, that it couldn't be a pure Gordon. I will have to take my words back next time I speak to her. Rolling Eyes

BA
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