workinghprs.myfastforum.org

Bareve · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject:

The Boxer bob tail testing was done very much as a test scenario. OK it did "eventually" produce a line of naturally short tails suitable for Boxers. Off hand I do not know how many litters it took to get to this stage and how many puppies before he got to the stage.

Can you honestly think the KC would allow each and every breeder of docked breeds to play with test matings in this same way? What happens to the surplus of puppies - who takes them on? Isn't there enough dogs going through breed and general rescue without adding any more to the numbers?

Surely our breed is no different to the others HPR where good specialist, suitable homes aren't readily available and I personally wouldn't want to breed so many puppies simply to attempt to produce a dog with the required breed points and a naturally shortened tail. I don't want to work and show a GWP with a full tail but if the law dictates that this is the only way then so be it. I fought along with most since the CDB was created and was so determined not to give in but unlike the hunting fraternity the dog world didn't seem to be able to, or wish to, maintain the momentum to take it as far as we could do to challenge the law.

I also agree with Claire inso much it would not be such a good idea for us "dual purpose" people to lose the ability to show north of the border without the same restrictions we do down south of the border.

I have always been incredibly amazed that the powers to be made this ban applicable to working dogs in a country really geared up towards gundogs and shooting Sad

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Sharon Pinkerton
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UK's Undisputed Top GWP Kennel
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druimmuir · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:31 am Post subject:

Really glad too see no-ones taking the cross breeding natural bob tail suggestion seriously ! Very Happy

Thanks to those that have signed so far, much appreciated.

Claire as yet I am not sure what the regulations will be regards showing if we win an exemption, James Scott at BASC is the man behind this current petition, I might drop him a line and find out what the regulations proposed would be.

Thanks again

Nicola

Bareve · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:30 am Post subject:

Helen · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:04 am Post subject:

Will sign in a minute but just wanted to agree with Sharon re: BASC. I can't see them showing an interested in showing at all.

Helen

cressy · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:46 am Post subject:

I wasn't trying to be difficult btw, I am neither pro or anti docking having some quite ambivalent feelings on the matter. What I am is pro-choice so I have signed all the relevant docking ban petitions.

I just feel that the predominant signatories for a Scottish Law change have to come from Scotland to be taken seriously.
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Sue

windem bang · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:38 am Post subject:

I am sorry that Basc took that attitude but I can understand why they did so. Allowing some show dogs to be docked but not any of the others would I.M.O. weaken the case for docking. Far too many owners of dogs which are of traditionally docked gundog breeds which are only shown and rarely ,if ever, worked would try to avail themselves of the loophole. I know this would happen - I have already spoken to people who say they would do exactly that.

A grey area would be created. I think this problem needs sorted out one way or the other.

Reading back over this I'm not sure it makes much sense but I know what I mean ! Confused

I think

Bill T.

Bareve · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:59 am Post subject:

I think I understand what you mean Bill Very Happy

Basically what Basc wouldn't understand was that there were some people out there with "working" dogs (either regular shoot members or dogs with awards) who also enjoyed showing. I still have the email somewhere and the person who replied to me simply couldn't understand that we were talking about individuals and not necessarily by breed. So the angle I was trying to get them to understand was that if a dog was legally docked (i.e. HPR, spaniel, Terrier) why shouldn't they be legally shown? Even my MP eventually realised what I was trying to get across to him as he kept saying "you can dock your working gundogs" which I knew but I also wanted to show them!!

It was the government/RSPCA/Defra who dealt the blow over showing as the Defra representative that I spoke to at the Westminster briefing knew from speaking to the Swedish KC that not having a showing ban meant that people were able to get around the ban and still breed/show docked dogs. The Defra chap did not want to know about legally docked working dogs were technically legal so why couldn't they be shown!

There are also HPR's who have been docked from parent/s who haven't even been worked in any sense of the word so one must assume they have a "friendly" vet, or have a family member with a shotgun licence, or a friendly landowner who could write the letter.

Likewise as many of the show secretaries have said that the showing ban isn't a KC ban it's law. So they wouldn't stop anyone from turning up and showing with a docked dog at those shows where you have to pay as they wouldn't be able to do anything other than inform the police and do you honestly think the police would keep coming out and dealing with these sorts of complaints? By the same token the lesser known people/breeders would get away with it whereas the bigger profile people would be on top of jealous exhibitors "hit list" with the local police station phone number on their mobiles Very Happy

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UK's Undisputed Top GWP Kennel
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Helen · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject:

I can see where you are coming from as well Bill. BASC are a shooting organisation and that's what they were defending. I actually think they do a fairly decent job on the whole.

RSPCA - PAH! Their ridiculous statement last week about killing a certain species to protect another is ethically wrong. For goodness sake! Are they not in the real world?! What about the predator control that goes on?? Sorry, RSPCA rant there - sorry! lol

I wonder if anyone is going to test the docking law with regards to showing a docked dog where the public have to pay? lol. Just think how many hunting convictions there has been since the ban - not many!

Helen

druimmuir · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject:

I can see what people are saying about BASC, I had the same problem with CDB but the other way round, it seemed to me that CDB favoured showing and had very little interest in their working dog membership, once docking was restricted in England and the showing regulations came into place the CDB didn't want to know about the next stage which was the ban in Scotland, and had v little interest in working dogs full stop, I got very little from them and ceased my membership.

Seems we can't find any organisations that cater for both parties.

Nicola

Bareve · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: