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windem bang · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject:

I am not trying to tell others what to do, I'm just passing on what I and many labrador triallers have found works best for the majority of dogs in the majority of SINGLE mark situations.

I was a little puzzled by Josies post, if I read it correctly at some tests dummies are being thrown with no shout given and no shot fired ? That is not a marked retrieve , that is a blind. Of course you have to handle on a blind - the judges or organisers are off their chumps if they are expecting dogs to do that kind of retrieve as a mark. Suppose a shot was fired from another part of the test ground as your dummy was silently thrown ??
Your dog would be incorrect if it did not turn to face that bang . No sound has been made to attract the dog in your test. I'm afraid that me and a judge or organiser would be busy having words ! Laughing

If when out picking up shots are fired and one bird is seen to be hit I do tell my dog to "mark!" To my dogs this means to watch that bird and ignore all others. I only do this on hot drives where several birds are in the air at the same time and one of those birds is likely to be a runner.

When it lands ,if it cannot be seen, at least the dog knows the birds last line of flight and can be sent for that bird using the simple marked retrieve command and not the setting up for a blind rigmarole. It is faster and maybe more certain to operate.

Gawd - who started this subject ! Rolling Eyes

Bill T.

munstyman · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject:

I think this thread is high lighting a problem ( and its not the retrieving subject in the thread Exclamation

)
Sharing experience and information is a good thing, but you should all remember that it is just that. THERE IS NO ONE METHOD OF TRAINING, TO TRAIN DOGS. There are many techniques and styles which are successful with many dogs and there are some that are not, matching the training to the dog AND to the abilities (and style) of the handler is very much subjective and by no means a hard science.
When reading posts and replies to training questions ( just like reading training books) By all means adapt your training accordingly if it sounds like a good idea to solve a problem, or appeals to your style, but don't be fooled into thinking that just because a `succesful' and/or `experienced' person uses a particular technique that you will be equally succesful if you `retrain' your dog to that persons methods. If your making progress with your training using one or several commands and its working for you and your dog then think twice before you change it Wink

Those that use the `name' for retrieving know that the dog is `thinking' retrieve, and even which retrieve by the focus of the dog, and often have more than one dog ready to retrieve and `competing' with each other so a name is all that is needed to release the dog.
The two most important pieces of information relating to the problem of `short' marking have already been mentioned. i.e. seeing the fall from the dogs perspective, and the length of retrieving the dog is use too.
I would agree with Mike that making the `retrieve' more noticeable when it is flying through the air (using the new `bumpers' with streamers) does improve marking from ` the dogs perspective', and that `straight line' training/memory retrieves can work on improving distance. I would add that good marking training has a great deal to do with building up the dogs confidence and distance in a progressive manner, if the dog starts to hunt for the retrieve your not improving their marking only their searching Wink

Peter

josie · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject:

Hi Bill, I've done tests where the dummy thrower just slaps the dummy...if they are any distance away or there is any wind, sometimes that's not enough to attract the dog's attention.
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windem bang · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject:

Hi Josie, I've seen the dummy slapping trick I have also seen one well known Scottish lab trialler shout at the dummy thrower that it was a dummy and not a bairns arse he was skelping - the thrower would have to do his own yelling ! Laughing

Bill T.

countrygirl · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject:

Peter

talking scence as normal read all the bits and pick out the bits that apply to you Very Happy

Caz
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NOB'S do it in the field!!!!!!!!!

windem bang · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:

Yes Caz - if you know what they are ! Confused

Bill T.

Claire · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:37 am Post subject:

At the Di Arrowsmith seminar I recently attended she talked about using shredded up carrier bags and attaching them to dummies to make them more visible and attractive to the dog when throwing them. However, she also said that with regards to the colour of the dummy it didn't actually matter because the dog is colour blind anyway. So whether you are using an orange or a green dummy won't make the retrieve any easier or more difficult for the dog, it only makes it easier for the handler as the orange dummy will be easier for the handler to see.
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Hunting is natural, even foxes do it !

Whenever life hands you lemons, grab the salt and add the tequila

Greyghost · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:37 am Post subject:

Maybe we should be using blue dummies Rolling Eyes

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/ask-...--are-dogs-color-blind/page1.aspx

Dogs do see in color, but their perception of color is not the same as it is for people. They cannot distinguish between red, orange, yellow or green. They can see various shades of blue and can differentiate between closely related shades of gray that are not distinguishable to people.

http://www.uwsp.edu/PSYCH/dog/LA/DrP4.htm - This site shows the spectrum as they see it.
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Lisa · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:45 am Post subject:

ooh, I like the idea of the shredded carrier bags! Might try that too!! Very Happy

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Mike · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: