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Allyson · Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:

The dog featured in GBs book looks exactly like several SHRP that I have seen up close and personal! Wink

This book was written over 30 years ago. Until this point the so called WHW exists in no international breed books. The SRHP is not mentioned in this book either. Therefore IMHO if in the 30 years since this book was published it is still "invisible" it begs the question whether these dogs are indeed pure weimaraners and if so why the variant coat has not appeared in any other country ever to date.

If it is a WHW perhaps someone can explain the mode of inheritance as we know exactly how the LH variant occurs.

I am sure that Weimaraner breeders would be keen to know so that if they so wish they could avoid including any WHW in their breeding programmes much as they do now when considering LH to SH matings and the subsequent offspring.

This fascinates me and I look forward to learning about this as it is not discussed, debated or featured in GBs book, PH books, VB book or any other breed book including Denlinger.

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Mike · Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:36 am Post subject:

Well it indeed looks as though there may once have been a wirehaired Weimaraner in Holland at least.

sdgraham · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: Wirehaired Weimaraner

Proving the absence of anything is almost impossible, but as far as I can see, NOBODY has posted any evidence of a wirehaired Weimaraner. By evidence, I mean a reference in an OFFICIAL document by an OFFICIAL organisation. Hearsay and suppositions (even by supposedly knowledgeable authors) aside, I've seen nothing that can be construed as evidence that a wirehaired (drahthaariger) Weimaraner ever existed and is no more real than a unicorn.
I HAVE seen confusion over the German term Stockhaar, which is NOT wirehaired, regardless of what Stockhaar might mean in Dutch.
I HAVE noted a tendency by some people to generalise unknown objects into the person's own frame of reference. Thus we have the North American "antelope," which isn't an antalope at all and the American "buffalo," which not related to the buffalo of Afica and Asia. The biggist corruption of all, of course, is when early exporers in America called the indigenous peoples "Indians" because the explorers thought (indeed WANTED to believe) they had reached the Indian subcontinent. Thus, it is not hard to understand why some people would call the Slovakian wirehaired pointer a "wirehaired Weimaraner."
But I digress.
Major kennel clubs of Slovakia and the Czech Republic are members of the FCI and as such, do not recognise any kind of Weimaraner other than shorthaired and longhaired (which includes the Stockhaar).
NOW consider the wirehaired Vizsla, which is NOT a "purebred" Vizsla but has been modified by infusion of one or more other breeds. As a result, the FCI recognises the "wirehaired Vizsla" as a completely separate breed.
Thus, my search for the wirehaired Weimaraner, which I have been pursuing on and off for 6-7 years, has led me to believe that it is a self-perpetuating myth based on what some people might call a Slovakian wirehaird pointer (Slovenský hrubosrstý Stavac).

Mike · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:13 am Post subject:

Steve, do you investigation show that the Czech Weimaraner club did try to get the Slovenský hrubosrstý Stavac recognised as a WH Weim? Your conclusion is much the same as that of a UK judge who has been persuing the background of the SRHP for the last 5 or 6 years.

As both you and Allyson have pointed out the evidence for the existence is rather slim to say the least! I guess it is the romantic in me that liked the idea of another "mysterious" and "rare" third type of Weimaraner!

By the way we do have unicorns in the UK.... Wink

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Marjolein · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Wirehaired Weimaraner

Mike · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:44 am Post subject:

Mar,
Thats my fault, I quoted one of Ralf's replies on Euroweims:

Marjolein · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:21 am Post subject:

Hehehe, now I get it Mike. I had no idea where I had said that drahthaar=stockhaar or the other way around.
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chiendog · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 116 **Breed:**

There was an attempt at creating a wirehaired weimaraner. While the creators succeeded in getting a grey dog with a wirehaired coat, the did not succeed in convincing the Weimaraner club to accept it as a Weimaraner.

Hence we now have the Slovak Pointer.

Yet references to a mythical wirehaired weim still pop up from time to time.

But Steve is right.

Wirehaired Weimaraner = unicorn
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tashap · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 688 **Breed:**

I can... this is a picture of the weimaraner from the dutch book

But there is also a reference to the wirehaired weimaraner in the Weimaraner Chronik in a letter to the breed club officials in the 1930's referring to the longhaired weimaraner where it mentions the loss of the wirehair through lack of understanding of the breeds type - a sad loss. Until then all wirehaired weimaraners were dispatched along with longhairs and those with other mismarks like too much white etc.

So effectively it was lost in the early part of the 1900's. I haven't been able to find a reference to a wirehaired coat in the breed supplements from the early history but that is not surprising because they would not have been registered.

There is still alot we don't know about the history of the weimaraner alot of information has been lost because the gastapo banned all record keeping and destroyed alot of the records they found Sad

Some are slowly being found so hopefully with time maybe one of these will also come to light.

The slovakian Rough Haired Pointers that I have seen do not have a wire coat to them, it is soft and wavy the coat on this dog looks like that of a terrier breed an the description in the books refer to it as 'rough to touch'.

This is the wirehair taken from the Gillian Burgoin book.

chiendog · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 116 **Breed:**