workinghprs.myfastforum.org

"may"hem! · Last edited by "may"hem! on Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hi,
I have a GSP pup who is 3 months old and very food oriantated. I have been using treats in her basic training at puppy socialization. I have just visited my local HPR club this weekend and they recomended not to use treats all of the time (so she will work for me rather than the food), as she still very young should i go "cold turkey" from the treats and just try all fun & praise or should i look at it in a long term way and slowly wean her off treats onto a clicker (which she response well to) and then wean her again to my praise only.

Any help and guidence is much appreciated.

josie · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject:

I politely suggest you ignore all that advice and if you are lucky enough to have a food-oriented puppy, that you keep using treats.

I'm not sure about their suggestion to "slowly wean her off treats onto a clicker", as you use treats with a clicker! (You can use other rewards, but treats are the quickest and most economical thing to use and I've yet to meet a clicker trainer who never uses treats!).

Both my dogs have been trained using treats from a young age. Slate works picking up on a shoot and competes in field trials and working tests. Grey is still a pup but following in her footsteps. Using treats has in no way inhibited their development as gundogs, in fact it has sped up their training in many ways.

There are people who prefer not to use treats at all and I don't try to convert people who feel that, each to their own, different things work for different people etc - but feel equally that if people are succeeding with treats, they shouldn't be given misinformation such as "dog will only work for treats and not you" stuff. It's just not true.

FWIW, and so you know I'm not talking out of my derriere on this one - I run training classes (pups to KC Gold award) and am a full member of the APDT.
_________________
Slate and Grey

Hairy or not, it's got to be grey!

Linda W · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject:

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

If this method of training works for you and your dog then tell your trainers to get stuffed.

Oops, gotta go, daughter wants to talk to me - on the phone.....

Louilou · Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 104 **Breed:**

Hi,

I'm a newbie here too. I've not started gun dog training yet. Just starting puppy foundation training as a precursor to the KC good citizen bronze. My pup is 12 week old slovak. He's my first dog. So hope that doesn't make me an idiot for responding. But I have also just gone through a few days of looking for a training class and being told by lots in my local area that I shouldn't do clicker and treats. So I'm now traveling further afield to someone who fits with what I'm comfortable with.

As a newbie, I got myself a few books on dog behavioural science before I got him. Click and treat/play reinforcement made sense to me. Ok, as a big softie, I gladly went in the direction of positive reinforcement. But I can see he picks things up on click treat, so I'm not looking to change something that's working. I

Perhaps you could politely carry on using treats along with the clicker. Isn't it the results that count?

Lou

Greyghost · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject:

Having tried both I would always opt for treats and I am a huge fan of clicker training. Very Happy

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Lesley & Holly (Age 7.5 - re-home)

Holly & Abbie

windem bang · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject:

Having tried both "methods" I am not a huge fan of clicker training but think it has its uses for some close in work. I use a modified (no actual clicker) C.T. method to get an into my hand delivery with Buck. I prefer to use a visual signal rather than the clicker for this but the principal is the same and it works well.

The method seems to fall onto its backside at range so I stick to the older tried and true methods for that. I don't think it makes any sense to use only one method if a judicious mix of two methods gets good results.

I know the more old fashioned methods are thought of as being cruel or brutal . There are people on this forum who have seen both Buck my young G.S.P. and Charlie my even younger work bred cocker. I don't think either dog could be fairly described as subdued or cowed looking even although I will use physical correction whenever I think it neccessary.

I think to get the best results we should be prepared to mix and match a bit to suit the individual dog.

Bill T.

Bareve · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject:

Paz · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:07 am Post subject:

Hi

I lots of different methods to train my dogs, but wouldn't find any of it easy if they were not food orientated. I have always found that training a hungry pup or dog and rewarding with food treats speeds up their learning process.

Once they get the hang of an exercise, I only reward for perfect performance.

I change the treats often too. High smell and high flavour results in my pup always wanting more training. (she is such an eager little soul)

Good luck with your pup and wishing you years of joy
_________________
Helen
Sacha (15 + y o Wei), Paz (10 month Wei), Zena (collie x)

Weis make the best escort-dogs

Pitbull · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:36 am Post subject:

for me its all treats and praise at a young age. weaning off the treats to just praise. The clicker for me is too unemotional for me. And just another thing ontop of many things that a novice trainer has to remember. Whatever training aid you use, use consistancy. Fairly, and firm. And it has to be something that you and the dog enjoys.

Helen · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject:

I use treats for sitting and recall as pups but do wean them off them. I did train one of my spingers on food totally and came across all sorts of problems with it when it came to retrieving as she would drop the dummy to get the food.

Totally agree with Bill - mix and match to suit the individual dog.

Do what you feel happiest with.

Helen