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DesO'Neile · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Closing the gap.

Guy,
I call that closing the gap. If you assume an aggressive enough posture you won't even have to go 20ms. It's all about body language. You might think that arms raised above the head works best but I find that chenched fists at the waist, a bit like The Incredible Hulk bursting out of his shirt works best.

Josie.
Once you can be confident that the dog may know better than you it is obviously best to let the dog work it out for themselves but in early training all you are doing by letting it disobey is teaching it to disobey and building up problems for the day when it is vital that it takes your direction. I can think of no more vital a situation than when you friend shoots their right and left at woodcock and your dog insists it retrieving the dead bird first instead of going after the lightly wingtipped runner.

windem bang · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:38 am Post subject:

I posted on the "close the gap " situation about a year or more ago. My post concerned how to handle the disobedient dog at a distance situation in a trial or test.

When you compete in a test or trial and the dummy or bird falls and the dog starts to disobey out there you are not allowed to move forward in a threatening manner - or in any manner at all .

So don't move forward - move back but make sure the judge sees you take the two backward strides. Then you can move forward again in threat posture and since you haven't gotten any nearer to the dog than you were when you started , there isn't much a judge can say about it even if they want to !

Obviously this can also be done in training but in that situation the handler should, from time to time, complete what the threat posture implies and go right out to the dog and "remonstrate" with it !

Bill T.

guy · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:54 am Post subject:

josie · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:45 am Post subject:

Helen · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

Attrition here as well but like Josie, will give them a chance before really doing anything. I can usually tell by their body language if they are taking the pee or not. I like to trust my dogs and for them to work a little independently. It is quite difficult to give a definite response as there are so many variables, for me anyway.

Just finished reading the second page (responded after the first page
) and agree with Des as well.

Helen

DesO'Neile · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject:

This has just been mentioned so I feel I can try and make my point again. I have heard the most successful handlers in nearly all gundog disciplines use the phrase "Taking the piss". I don't believe that this is possible. I believe that when a dog appears to be TTP it is in fact only acting in a manner that it feels was considered appropriate at some time in the past. I would also suggest that this was more than likely because the handler failed to intervene, for a whole lot of reasons, some valid some not so, when the dog acted inappropriately.

josie · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:

I agree Des.
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Helen · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject:

I agree Des and didn't really mean it literally. Just easier typing than the full explanation.

Helen

BlackIsler · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:01 am Post subject:

munstyman · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject:

Needless to say I'll side with the `old school' on this, but there is something else to consider, namely the dogs perception of right and left, and does its thought processes occasionally get confused. i.e. when you are pointing left and the dog is facing you and then it goes to its left ( your right). I ask this out of interest, as I've noticed that dogs quartering rarely make this mistake, yet the same dog can and do go in the `opposite' direction when given direction from a sit or stop on a retrieve. I wonder if the dogs response would be any different if it was trained to a whistle `left' and `right' as is done with sheep dogs Question

Peter