Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: Are there any soft mouthed HPR's?
As someone who has been shooting and handling working gundogs all his life I am appalled at the apparent lack of soft mouths within the HPR group of breeds.
I would like to bring on another GSP before mine gets to retirement age but I am so depressed at the moment by the amount of damaged game that I have seen - from a multiplicity of breeds - that I don't know where to start.
I can't see the point in putting so much time and effort into training a dog - never mind the significant financial outlay - to then find that everything it retrieves comes back looking like roadkill.
I have never had a hard mouthed Labrador or Spaniel, and have very rarely come across one, so when looking for a pup from one of these breeds the issue would never cross my mind. But with the HPR's it would be the first question I would ask about a potential prospect.
So... can anyone help me with a 100% cast iron guaranteed soft mouthed strain of HPR? PLEASE!! Whilst I would prefer to continue with GSP's I would happily change allegiance to another breed for the confidence that this guarantee would bring.
Until then I'm afraid I won't be getting another HPR and will just have to continue with my Labradors without the excitement of a dog quivering on point.
I have worked a GSP for the last 12 years and would miss it but I will not miss the disappointment and embarrassment of witnessing hard mouth.
Too many people in the shooting fraternity refer to these breeds as HPC's - standing for Hunt, Point and Chew. I would like to be able to tell them where to go, and show them how capable a well trained and handled HPR can be. Please help me to do so!
I think Bill (windem bang) would probably agree with you on this one. I know Tom Brechney takes the problem very seriously as well (although I have no idea if he has any plan to breed a litter any time soon). It might be an idea to give Bill a PM and see what he suggests? _________________ Fi 1 year old Weimaraner
Grace Weimaraner. Gone but not forgotten.
Harley Weimaraner. Much loved and sorely missed.
Bill's on his trip at the moment [fishing] I think he may be back this weekend.
However I must say that I haven't had experience with hard mouth with Ghillie.......perhaps she's unique There again she is a BRITTANY and they are different _________________ Jan
Ghillie, hips 8/9=17 and Merlin, hips 9/9=18 My opinions are brilliant, intelligent [sometimes] and MINE alone! If you want one I can give it to you. Sean Bean has wrinkles just like Bill!!!
None of mine (gwps) are hard mouthed. In fact, they have very soft mouths. Rob was working Harvey on the grouse when he flushed a rabbit. The rabbit jumped into a bomb hole (army ranges) and started swimming. Harvey jumped in, retrieved the rabbit to hand and Rob let it go.
i have a very hard-mouthed springer (so use it for beating and a soft mouth springer I use as a peg dog) you must be very lucky to have never encountered a hard-mouthed lab in your travels. Not saying this as a defence of HM HPRs but it does occur in all breeds.
IMO it is so easy to tar all HPRs with the same brush and it usually comes from someone working a poorly trained lab or springer.
The number of times I have sat in the beaters hut listening to complete bullshit about how amazing the beaters dogs are - to then watch them flush and ruin a whole drive is quite amazing. _________________ Spitting Feathers
So... can anyone help me with a 100% cast iron guaranteed soft mouthed strain of HPR?
I doubt they could. Hard mouth can be in the breeding of a dog but it can also be taught by bad training/handling.
I agree with BenB that you are very lucky not to have come across hard mouthed labs and springers. I've seen many birds destroyed by both breeds on shoots.
If you've had so much bad luck with HM in HPRs maybe you could share the breeding of your dogs with the rest of us so we don't fall foul of the lines involved. _________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
He won the fun retrieveing at the WCGB fun day which included retrieveing a fresh egg!! It came back fully intact!! phew! _________________ www.verwegen.co.uk
My pup pegged a quail the other day and brought it back very much alive. Partridge she keeps dropping as she brings them back. Some of the feathers off but the skin unpunctured.
Not sure the egg test is an indication of soft mouth - but fun. i used to have a spaniel who would do that trick and you could hear the egg roll up and down her teeth as she brought it in. Her other party trick was to retrieve a chocolate to hand, not that you would want it back as it was rather slobbered on
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There again she is a 
