Having had my hands on probably over 300 bracchi inthe last 20 years anniebrac I stick to my experienced opinon thanks which I stressed here is just that, my opinion, like yours. I dont get into oneupmanship. I don't know how many times you've been out to see them inItaly over the last 20 years and gotyour hands on them- the italians welcome this from enthusiasts and as they themselves said to me many years ago, you don't need to grow coffee to get an opinion on the taste.
Agree weima, judging in uk pitiful of the bracco but much better on spins, getting there but still divisive imho. tHere is some laughter in italy about the bracco breed club over here appointin judges who have just 'owned the breed 5 years' and showed 'at least 20 times in that period and attended a seminar' lol these people now make up b list specialist appointments and have it seems mmost shows sown up.. . . .
Me thinks there is an imposter in our midsts. One who is not being entirely honest as to his name!!!!! If you're that enthusiastic, why don't you own one then????????? _________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dogs!!!
my name is indeed paul so I don't know what you mean or why. i have said my opinions on this debate i dont answer silly questions from people who have nothing better to contribute than that
Having had my hands on probably over 300 bracchi inthe last 20 years anniebrac I stick to my experienced opinon thanks which I stressed here is just that, my opinion, like yours. I dont get into oneupmanship. I don't know how many times you've been out to see them inItaly over the last 20 years and gotyour hands on them- the italians welcome this from enthusiasts and as they themselves said to me many years ago, you don't need to grow coffee to get an opinion on the taste.
Agree weima, judging in uk pitiful of the bracco but much better on spins, getting there but still divisive imho. tHere is some laughter in italy about the bracco breed club over here appointin judges who have just 'owned the breed 5 years' and showed 'at least 20 times in that period and attended a seminar' lol these people now make up b list specialist appointments and have it seems mmost shows sown up.. . . .
Paul, the generalisation about the BIS judging list:
this is the minimum requirement for inclusion, there are people on that particular list with many more years of Bracchi experience. Also I must say that every Club has to start somewhere & if the Club wanted to have members & enthusiasts to judge the breed, gain experience, then the bar needed to be at an attainable level for the members. As you are so interested in the breed why are you not on our judging list?
As to the laughter in Italy, well give me their names & I can have a discussion as to why!
Your comment about having your 'hands on' 300 Bracchi in the last 20 years must mean that you judge at a high level in the U.K?
By the way do you own Bracchi _________________ HPR's are all you need.
Hi all, my name's Paul, I have to just put my penny'sworth in on this whole debate which I've red with interest.
Bracco wise I saw Axel and the rbd on Saturday and would say that I agree about Axel being upright in the shoulder but I also agree with the comment about judges should be looking past movement to the whole dog. I do have bracco friends and have seen them out in Italy on my trips. Axel looks to me more like a female GSP in movement and front, true he has drive but the bracco drive is a powerful one not a light glide with springy push-off like the GSP's can come across as, he is far too square I agree and too light framed to really represent a male of this breed. Axel certainly doesn't have a true bracco front, no depth of chest. Disagree about his head, muzzle perfectly fine, stop not as pronounced as some have said, planes were actuially divergent. Saw his progeny a male, awful head, looked like calcium deficiency while young, still placed even though all over the place. I would say the rbd was nice but here, far too heavy a head (even if nice) but it would be breed bearable if he was more substantial in body and not so very short in the leg, he looks like he could topple forward at any moment, really out of proportion that one, but he is young I think as one post said, and the rest of his body should hopefully catch up. Nice movement, more true of a bracco than Axel, power there, seriously needs to bulk up- but not on his head Would have picked him or one of two other more evnly proportioned, really strong, powerful males in Open for BD. There were people ringside saying judging seemed odd, to say the very least. . . . I agree
Great to see them and the spins, worth it just for them. Well done everyone!
so you've now gone from having bracco friends and seeing them out on your trips to Italy - to - having had your hands on over 300 and slagging off the breed club here in the UK. Shame on you!!!!
The thing about forums is that you can be anybody and say anything!! _________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dogs!!!
oh dear. I did not 'slag off' uk club i said there is laughter in italy about the judge requirements of the uk club
yes that is right i have bracco frineds and yes i have seen them out in italy and yes i have over teh last 20 years had my hands on probably that numberr mentioned, i have spent most of each year out there but i see no need to say anything more than that, for some reason you choose not to agree with my opinions thats fine but you two last posters are lookin for trouble, if you dont like what i have written best get over it there really isnt anything more to say from me to you both obviously lol
I know nothing about this breed but hope to go to see them work this Saturday. How many of you breed enthusiasts will be there working their dogs for all to see ?
As I understand it out of a possible entry of 15 -16 at an event ran by Bracco enthusiasts , only 3 -4 of the entries will be Braccos.
Plenty of dogs managed to go to Crufts - why such a poor showing for what the dogs are meant for - bred for ????????? Or are they being bred for dog shows ?
Bill T. _________________ Breed for the best - train for the rest.
Guys, I'm really disappointed that you haven't managed this thread very well. This thread started to go downhill here:
Quote:
I think that your opinions would have more "weight" Paul if you actually owned a bracco - or had judged a bracco class and had your hands on some dogs. Merely watching Bracchi at an event doesnt count as your opinion of a dog can change if you have your hands on it!!!
It continued downhill here:
Quote:
Have you had your hands on dogs Anniebrac?
And here:
Quote:
have had the hounds now for almost 5 years and have had my hands on a few dogs.
And here:
Quote:
Having had my hands on probably over 300 bracchi inthe last 20 years
And here:
Quote:
As you are so interested in the breed why are you not on our judging list?...Your comment about having your 'hands on' 300 Bracchi in the last 20 years must mean that you judge at a high level in the U.K?
And here:
Quote:
so you've now gone from having bracco friends and seeing them out on your trips to Italy - to - having had your hands on over 300 and slagging off the breed club here in the UK. Shame on you!!!!
If you're responsible for any of the above comments, please consider yourselves sufficiently warned. Anything further of this type is likely to result in your being banned from the forum.
Again, it appears that no one read the link which I posted several pages back (http://workinghprs.myfastforum.org/about18.html, or if they did, they appear not to have noticed the paragraph which reads:
"everyone here is equal and everyone's opinion is valid - from someone who got their puppy yesterday to an old hat who has 30 years experience. So - people who are new to HPRs should not feel obliged to preface every post with "I'm just a lowly novice", eating humble pie till they throw up, but should just come right out and say what they think. And people who have 30 years experience should use it to guide others in a non-confrontational way, while remembering that once there was a day when they had their first puppy, too."
Please consider:
The sort of "I am going to silence you, because I know more than you, because I am more experienced than you, therefore I am right" line of arguing is very low. It achieves nothing by way of understanding more about the subject concerned (whether a breed, a training method or anything else) because it always degenerates into a quest to argue the superiority of one's own position by asserting that one has more of a right to one's opinion than anyone else. It is the diversity of co-existing yet conflicting opinions which makes for a democratic and interesting forum here, wherein people can pick and choose what they agree with and what suits them. Please have respect for someone else's opinion, even if you disagree with them and believe you know more than them. If you want to take issue with them, please do so factually, and not by calling them "silly" or by attempting to diminish them in public by implying they know less than you.
I'm going to leave this thread unlocked and I hope it will not continue as above. _________________ Slate and Grey
June Laing had a team of Brachii in The Borders Bill , they were part of her picking up team for Wilson Young. Peter O Driscoll told me once how good and reliable they were, especially on runners that ran far, far back.
Can't get a better example than that this breed is a credible working addition to the gundog group. Like all new breeds increasing the number of enthusiasts who are willing to go down the dual-purpose road is very very slow, as we have experienced in Longhairs. It took decades for shorts and wires to become firmly established, so it will be for these two breeds. We don't trial very often because quite frankly we can't afford it. Importing a dog is a minimum of 4 figures, then health checks and campaigning in the ring and the field is another. I'm sure the owners of Brachii understand all too well the costs involved in establishing a new breed into the UK.
I will say tho it was important for us to prove imported stock in the ring and in the field before we bred from their bloodlines. To us , we can say our German bloodlines are UK PROVEN dual purpose. How many Brachii have stud book numbers thro FTA's ? GLP's have 15.
It will be interesting next year when both breeds are being judged by an Italian
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If you're that enthusiastic, why don't you own one then????????? 
