Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: tracking
Hi all,
I tend not to post on forums but something that I think needs correcting so as not to give a false impression is the information that has been given by Langhaar in relation to the BDS BASC test/register that you mention. The details you give will not be the required standard should a register be formed and the reason that I can stop anyone panicking, (not that there would be anything to panic about if it was 1000 yards 72hrs), is that I have spent the last couple of months writing the guidelines for the actual test that may be used.
A few quickies whilst I’m here
Blood loss should not be seen as only that which leaves via a hole. Many injuries have very little external blood loss and In that respect you are correct, training can bare little resemblance to the real thing, but mostly from the point of view that the blood loss after the initial impact/ flee, will be far less in reality than a training track, and in some cases none at all.
Loose tracking does have its place and the release of the dog when appropriate is good practice, however the use of a tracking lead gives you far more advantages than disadvantages, control, teamwork, accuracy ,safety to name but a few.
Deer can be lost anywhere and much depends on the injury and the circumstances surrounding it however as I was told many years ago by a German handler when posing the question of entering dense cover, you get on your knees if you have to and back your dog up only the lazy make excuses not to. I have done so ever since however tempting avoiding wet pine needles down my pants is at the time. Reporting is a good point to raise though can be difficult and time consuming to get right.
Remember in those very areas you have mentioned, e.g. commercial blocks, it will be very hard to hear/locate a dog speaking when it has free tracked an injured deer for two miles before bringing it to rights. That leaves you with the other two methods which both require the dog to show the handler the find and you will have to enter the blocks anyway as the dog will show you by following its original track. You can’t avoid those pine needles
Don’t get too caught up with times and distances, whilst training for work, what we ask our dogs often bares little resemblance to reality, however the benefits appear when in a live situation we need them the most.
This is why I don’t write on forums I go on for ever, hope I’ve been able to give you all some food for thought.
Hi Mark
It is not the pine needles down the pants we are scared of, I am faced with such inconveniences and worse at work every week.
It is simply the fact that you can't follow a dog in a line for any distance through thicket stage Sitka Spruce. The trees are planted at extremely close distance and at the point in the rotation that they close canopy the branches meet each other to the ground.
Now, we do go in there after our dogs when they have reported a definite kill and often come out looking like a chainsaw accident, but following a dog through such cover with a line is not an option.
It is not difficult to train a dog to find, report and return to a dead deer but it does require one thing - training.
GPS satellite tracking also has a lot to commend it providing added insurance and security and getting round the problem of 'hearing' the dog, it is however expensive and perhaps doesn't work so well in extreme closed canopy. Radio telemetry doesn't work well round here with all the undulating ground.
I am all for using a line in training, where the handler determines the terrain and cover encountered. It has much to commend it and is essential in situations where the dog may come in proximity to roads, traffic etc.
But when you really need a dog, and the deer is actively mobile, it is not just the dogs nose you want, you need to exploit the fact that the dog is faster and more agile to bring the deer to book, attributes it can't utilise when attached to a cumbersome human particularly one crawling on his hands and knees with pine needles in his pants. _________________ Kennel Trudvang Home of the Vikings.
I cant say I disagree with any of your points,(ok most of them ) wildman. Thicket stage is a problem and decision to release can some times be a close run thing on these occasions.
Gps and telemetry are very good backups but as you say they have their downsides and one of them is cost but then what value a lost dog.
I do think you have hit the nail on the head that whatever you require of your dog requires training. There seems to be very much an expectation by some handlers that when you get one of the breeds that are currently in vogue for deer work that it should track and report straight from the box so to speak. Poor training and advice seem to be prevalent at this time and in many cases it is perpetuated by the sporting press and im sorry to say some elements in the sporting organizations.
When you say it is not difficult to train a dog in these tasks I tend to find that people would disagree, however this is down to the conflicting advice and overall lack of experience and handler confidence in this country with deer work.
Handlers have few people to turn to and even on forums I have seen not only bad advice given but shockingly dangerous advice. As with all new areas it will take time but I have to say that I am always glad to see that the interest is there and that people like Pete are persevering in trying to change attitudes and get things right.
I don’t think we will agree on the tracking lead and until the point I release that dog I will always be the lump on the lead, mind you that may be something to do with Mrs Mark being very good at getting pine needles out of all the best nooks and crannies, but that’s another story
Have forwarded copies of BMHS Aptitude, Test 1 and 2 to interested HPR Clubs and individuals. If there are other enthususiasts please e-mail Pete. _________________ Home of pure German Longhairs ,Ch HV's and Ch GSP's.
I can see the letter but no details of the tests. Is there another document that should have appeared with the letter? _________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
One of the goals of the BMH Soc. of GB from the very beginning was to establish tracking tests as in Europe, we have worked from the tracking test rules from the continent as a basis; we have had to have the rules translated and proofed to make them workable here in the U.K.
As Secretary I have contacted various non BMH Owners, Breeders, Clubs and Societies regarding the Tracking Tests to establish whether or not Tracking Tests were required for other breeds. The response was all enthusiastic and very positive. Owners of some of the other breeds have been very instrumental and supportive of our goals, to the extent of including information in their relative ‘breed notes’ in the dog press. We, through the assistance of others have also been able to source out Judges; the Judges are experienced judges and are qualified to judge tracking tests on the continent, with one judge actually residing in the U.K. We fully intend, with help, to train and appoint our own judges in the future.
The purposes of the Tracking Tests are ultimately to preserve and encourage the natural abilities that for which our hounds came into being. The Tests will be open to al K.C registered dogs with expectations of HPR’s and BMH’s being most numerous in tests. We have had other breed owners in contact wishing to take part in the Tests, Cesky Terriers, Curly Coated Retrievers and the Bassett Fauve de Bretagne to name a few. The tests are run as a test not a competition, so any amount of dogs can pass or fail on the day.
Please read through the Schweisshunde Tests on the web site.
The Schweisshunde Aptitude Test is very basic, being designed not to overmatch but to give handlers the confidence to hopefully go further.
The Schweisshunde Test Level 1 goes further to test the tracking ability, behaviour at carcass and some basic obedience.
The Schweisshunde Test Level 2 is a further advanced Test being longer and older with reporting and steadiness to shot being tested.
To register an interest in the Schweisshunde Tests please click at the BMHSGB web site and include your name, breed of dog you have, breed Clubs and Societies you are a member of and the county you reside in.
A meeting is intended for interested parties in November.
Pete Garraway Sec BMHSGB _________________ Home of pure German Longhairs ,Ch HV's and Ch GSP's.
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) wildman. Thicket stage is a problem and decision to release can some times be a close run thing on these occasions.
