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Using starter pistols and dummy launchers
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munstyman



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 628
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the extra info,
I let my basc and shooting times subscription go at their last renewal hence I was not upto date with this topic.
As I understood it at the time, these ladies were on private land with the owners permission, and therefore had `Lawful authority' and by training gundogs had `Lawful Excuse' to use a blank firing gun. If they were prosecuted for using the blank firing `replica' on a public highway, it makes the law look ridiculous as in Firearm / Highways Law (Highways Act 1959, s.117) `discharging a firearm within fiftyfeet from the centre of a public carriageway is only an offence if done without lawful authority or excuse, and if it results in injury, interuption or danger to highway users (s. 140 of the 1959 Act), and remember this applies to REAL firearms.
If any one can spread even more light on this topic, i.e. court transcripts legal details, I would be grateful, as if this indeed sets a unjust precedent, I for one want to take it up with the powers that be Evil or Very Mad
Peter

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guy
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Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 1259
Location: Hampshire

Breed: EB

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the original post wth the alleged (at the time) offence is here http://workinghprs.myfastforum.org/ftopic265.php
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munstyman



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 628
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guy,
But like I said something is amiss, either the facts do not ring true to the story, or the case was extremely badly defended. I'll e-mail using the link to see what I can find out.
Peter
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tashap



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 686


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone can be a member of the NGO I'm a student member and have it for free for the duration of my education. The insurance policy is provided by the NFU so I don't know if you can go to them direct or not.
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Alkemist



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 135


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what did Basc not do? I ask because we are hoping to join something this year and don't want to join the wrong thing - which we usually end up doing hehe.

Nina
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munstyman



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 628
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
what did Basc not do?


This is one of the questions I would like to know the answer to, as well. Even if the two ladies in question were not BASC members, an issue such as this which effects such a core interest of members should have been given the maximum help by the BASC firearms team IMO.
I have trawled through several legislative ACTs involving `imitation firearms and their use and still have been unable to find what part of the Law was broken given the information as publisised.....unless training a gundog is deemed not a reasonable excuse Exclamation Shocked . I am also a little confused as to why it was traffic officers that investigated the incident. as if a report of any firearm related incident it is always treated as serious and dealt with by Armed Response Units to ensure safety of officers and public.
Interestingly a guidence letter from the Home Office to the ACPO on implimenting the recent legislation regarding `imitation firearms ' and `reasonable excuse' advises concideration of circumstances,and common sense before taking a prosecution Confused I know if this incident had happened in Wiltshire I would be making life extremely difficult for my Chief Constable if he made the same decision Wink .
Peter
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Mike
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 1688
Location: Kingsteignton Devon

Breed: Weimaraner

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When the matter was first reported by you on the Forum I contacted Bill Harriman at BASC HQ. My reason for doing this was to ascertain if there was a general principle involved that BASC needed to take up on behalf of its membership.

I was informed and advised as follows:

1. There is no national principle involved. The police force concerned are known "mavericks" on firearms matters and regularly lose cases (and a lot of taxpayers money) as a result.

2. BASC firearms experts have been briefing the defence solicitors involved in the case. They have also made representations to the Crown Prosecution Service about it.

3. When it was explained to the ladies that BASC could only directly represent members and they were invited to join so that they could benefit directly from BASC's expertise, they refused to even consider joining.

On the basis of that, I am satisfied that BASC staff have acted properly to safeguard the interests of our members.

Incidentally, BASC has a category of Gundog Membership for those who work dogs but do not shoot. Even this categry of reduced-price membership would have entilted the ladies to full service.


The above quote is taken from Eric Begbie a BASC governing council member. Taken from here:
http://p211.ezboard.com/fgundogan...17.topic&start=41&stop=60
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munstyman



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike,

Quote:
1. There is no national principle involved.


I wonder what they think now that this precedent has been set Sad

I'm glad I let my membership lapse, IMO any organisation that thinks more about itself than the principles that it was set up to protect, has lost the plot Evil or Very Mad
I'll stay with the NGO for now, at least until I see what NOB's come upwith regarding insurance Wink
Peter
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sako75



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 786
Location: Stonehaven , Aberdeenshire

Breed: weimaraner

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks ,

I use an immitation glock 17 pistol for all my gundog training. It fires 8mm blanks which are freely obtainable without the need for a licence. I use this particular pistol as it replicates the noise of a 12 guage shotgun more than say a .22 starter pistol. I use this on private land (never in public) with the landowners consent - my question is , am I breaking the law ?? I have often wandered about the pistols legality but as I bought it from a reputable company , I presumed that it was legal. Question

I should really find out more as I am the holder of a firearms certificate and would hate for it to be revoked for such a "silly" offence.
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BritAnnie



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1720
Location: Central Scotland

Breed: Brittany, GWP

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm even scared to take my starting pistol off my own land. Does anyone know exactly what one can do with a starter and what one can't? Thanks
Annie
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